Following up the Steve Scott thread

[Randy Steinman]

In case you missed it, Roy Hobbs wondered aloud what had become of Steve Scott. Steve was a longtime regular on here, with character and credentials as solid as they come. (He's a former WLS News Director, now at WCBS in New York.) His posted response to Roy's question reads:

"I don't come around ML as much any more. Frankly, I got burned out by the political bickering. I've always enjoyed the journalism discussions...but, the name calling and political partisanship (it seems *every* thread has to be left-versus-right) wore me down."

I'll be honest when I admit that this really saddened me this weekend. I got to know Steve pretty well over the past five or six years and losing a quality poster like him is very discouraging. I mean... this Forum is meant to appeal to people like him. If we can't attract a Steve Scott to these discussions, who the hell can we?!?

Moderating this Forum is not easy, but we've been trying really hard in recent weeks to clean up the language. That was/remains the #1 priority. The addition of Calvin has been wonderful. He has way less patience than I do and he has no problem shutting people down.

Step #2 will now include getting rid of the bickering. The neener-neener-neener crap is tiresome and adds nothing. We'll make a conscience effort to start deleting it as well. And if the same posters continue to persist at it, we'll start handing out week-long bans - for starters.

The Political Forum has already been tried... years ago. We got so many complaints about it that it was shelved. Interestingly, most of the people doing most of the complaining disappeared shortly after the next election... and haven't been back since. hmmmmmm.

Trust me, the Weather Forum isn't going anywhere. It runs smoothly 99.9% of the time. And I honestly can't imagine someone has stopped coming to ML because of the separate J- and Sports Forums.

I've said it before but I'll say again... if you're offended by something... report it. (It's the triangle icon in the bottom left of each post box, under the user's name.) The infraction reports are the first thing Mods check when they log in. And please continue to report the Chinese spam-bots.

I like the idea of the orginal thread starter having the ability to delete (not edit) hi-jacking posts. Will look into that.

Hey, we're trying here. It ain't easy sometimes. Personally, I am committed to making this Forum as good as it can possibly be for Mark and Adrienne's business. For what they've done for me over the years, I owe them that.

I still truly believe we've got a good thing here. This entire teevee industry is one we should all be trying to save, and the MediaLine community is an extension of that. Personally, I'm not ready to give up on either one.

Sorry to be long-winded.

And, Steve, I sincerely hope we can win you back.

RPS

[Kace]

Yeah, I like Steve. He should post more, even if it's to counter-balance the other stuff.

Wait, I get to stay too, right?

[Another side]

Sounds like the right approach to me.

[Spike]

Originally Posted by Randy Steinman

I like the idea of the orginal thread starter having the ability to delete (not edit) hi-jacking posts. Will look into that.

Originally Posted by Another side

Sounds like the right approach to me.

You mean I'll be able to delete all posts by Another side from my threads?

Sweet.

[Another side]

Originally Posted by Spike

You mean I'll be able to delete all posts by Another side from my threads?

Sweet.

Trust me ... as in the past, you won't be troubled by too many of my posts in your threads.

[John M.]

I still visit but don't stay as long.

As far as ways to improve, look at what Kevin Johnson has done with b-roll.net. It's a thriving site where photographers from around the world talk shop. I don't know if they get banned or what but the trolls and the troublemakers aren't tolerated there.

Its section equivalent to OpenLine, "Anything Goes," is listed at the bottom of the list of forums. B-roll's mission seems much clearer than this board's. It has a sandbox for the kids but it's out in the back yard rather than the first thing you see when you come in the door.

The most famous (and infamous) poster here is Mighty Dyckerson. That says a lot about what kind of board this is. One thing it seems to say to the upandowns, Vulcans and Steve Scotts of the world is that this place is not their place.

At some point the board owners had to decide who the primary audience for this site was going to be. They chose Dyck. It may be too late to change course now but I wish you luck.

[Another side]

I don't find it particularly compelling that a site called "b-roll" focuses on photographers gathering to talk shop.

Nor do I know how many of those photogs also post here when the urge hits to talk about something other than cameras and shooters.

I have no idea what the original intent was of the Medialine owners, but I'd wager thier choice of "Medialine" was to attract anyone interested in media matters to join others who feel the same. I doubt seriously it was to suggest only media issues were appropriate topics ... but that's a guess.

And John ... you rarily contribute and when you do it's on journalism issues. And there's a place for that. So what, precisely, is your beef?

[adam & doctor drew]

John makes some good points, as usual.
but what the goal of the site was when it started isn't too relevant, IMO.
the important thing is the mods have the ability to decide what they want the forum to be NOW.

[Mighty Dyckerson]

Originally Posted by John M.

The most famous (and infamous) poster here is Mighty Dyckerson.

Please, you are too kind.

But seriously, I've been here over seven years, and now all of the sudden it's Beat Up On Dyckerson Day?? Just because this Scott Steve guy comes out of the woodwork (and btw, I don't trust anybody with two first names) to weigh in on the POLITICAL bickering?? I don't even post in the political threads...unless I'm giving Prodouche some much deserved grief.

[Murphy Brown 2003]

Originally Posted by Another side

I have no idea what the original intent was of the Medialine owners, but I'd wager thier choice of "Medialine" was to attract anyone interested in media matters to join others who feel the same. I doubt seriously it was to suggest only media issues were appropriate topics ... but that's a guess.

It used to be a trade forum. I used to lurk when I was looking for my first job in TV (before I officially joined) and it was a fabulous tool. Most of the posts were about television stations, resume tapes, tips for those searching for jobs, advice on contract negotiations, agents, salary, etc. There were mentors who offered concrete advice on tapes (I sent my first tape to two posters, one of whom offered to put in a word to his news director for me) and even news directors who posted leads now and then.

Sure, there were political posts and sports posts and posts about nothing in particular, but I would say at least 80% of it, if not more, was about the media and most of those were by industry people. It was a great resource. I don't know when that changed, but I suspect it was when they split the board into the J-forum and Openline, which is why I think further separation is a bad idea.

[Another side]

No ... I was a frequent participant when that split was made. It had no impact on the variety of posts.

[Mighty Dyckerson]

Originally Posted by reporter-

He's not famous or infamous, execpt in his own little mind. He's a puss filled boil on the ass of the board.

Awww, you're going to make me blush.

[reporter-]

Originally Posted by John M.

The most famous (and infamous) poster here is Mighty Dyckerson. That says a lot about what kind of board this is.

He's not famous or infamous, execpt in his own little mind. He's a puss filled boil on the collective ass of the board. An irritant which is best lanced and drained before an infection sets in.

[Murphy Brown 2003]

Originally Posted by reporter-

He's not famous or infamous, execpt in his own little mind. He's a puss filled boil on the collective ass of the board. An irritant which is best lanced and drained before an infection sets in.

Why couldn't you just say that under your regular handle?

[ewink]

?! How did you quote a message that came after yours?

[Mighty Dyckerson]

Originally Posted by ewink

?! How did you quote a message that came after yours?

Dyckerson knows all, my anime-loving friend. Dyckerson knows all.

And to answer your next question, it's 9 inches.

[Spike]

Originally Posted by ewink

?! How did you quote a message that came after yours?

He quoted a message that came before his. Then that poster deleted that message and posted it again, after it had been quoted, rather than just editing it to add that next sentence.

[Diggin' Bear]

Originally Posted by Mighty Dyckerson

I don't even post in the political threads...

Sorry. I'm gonna call BS on this one. You HAVE posted on political threads, and it was very apparent of your support for Obama.

I have no problem with your political views. I trade emails from time to time with someone here who has completely different ideals from mine.

But don't try to hide behind saying you don't post on political threads. You have and you do.

...unless I'm giving Prodouche some much deserved grief.

Amazingly enough, you just gave us the *perfect* example as to why a lot of people get tired of this place and just give up.

It's one thing to call someone on something. It's another to do it OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER.....

...and the song never changes.

We get it. He gets it. You don't like the guy. He doesn't like you. Isn't that enough as opposed to chasing each other across the board only to drop little ***t bombs in someone's thread?

Or do you and he have enough cojones to just let it go?

[Mighty Dyckerson]

Originally Posted by Friggin' Bore

You HAVE posted on political threads...

Nicely done. Respond to only PART of my sentence in order to support your flimsy argument.

Originally Posted by Friggin' Bore

It's one thing to call someone on something. It's another to do it OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER.....

Or do you and he have enough cojones to just let it go?

That's because Prodouche asks for it - make that BEGS for it...OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER again. I do support Obama, but I would have supported a houseplant if it meant further tormenting La Douche.

And I don't speak Spanish, so I can't answer your cojones question.

[John M.]

Originally Posted by Another side

And John ... you rarily contribute and when you do it's on journalism issues. And there's a place for that. So what, precisely, is your beef?

I don't have a beef. I was trying to answer the question Randy posed in his original post:

Originally Posted by Randy Steinman

I mean... this Forum is meant to appeal to people like him. If we can't attract a Steve Scott to these discussions, who the hell can we?!?

If it is supposed to appeal to working journalists, it's missing its mark. And it's not difficult to figure out why. That wasn't always the case. Once upon a time OpenLine WAS the J-Forum.

I cited b-roll.net because it's a media-related site whose message board does attract the Steve Scotts of that realm and has managed to keep them coming back.

This is not my site so it's not my place to complain about how it's run. But it's not going to appeal to both the upandowns and the Mighty Dyckersons. It has to choose and police the board accordingly.

[Spike]

Originally Posted by Mighty Dyckerson

And I don't speak Spanish, so I can't answer your cojones question.

You know, like huevos. Or pelotas.

[Diggin' Bear]

Originally Posted by Mighty Dyckerson

Nicely done. Respond to only PART of my sentence in order to support your flimsy argument.




That's because Prodouche asks for it - make that BEGS for it...OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER again. I do support Obama, but I would have supported a houseplant if it meant further tormenting La Douche.

And I don't speak Spanish, so I can't answer your cojones question.

Gee, feeling a little defensive? Feel the need to attack someone personally because the argument isn't going your way?

There's a real sentiment here that what you do is tired and old and doing more harm than good.

Remember this: a lot of people thought you were funny, me included. But you went over the line, and EVERYTHING in human existence jumps the shark.

It's time to change things up around here. You can make it a better place, or not. But if you choose to continue what you're doing now, a LOT of people are going to vote against you.

[Spike]

Originally Posted by John M.

I cited b-roll.net because it's a media-related site whose message board does attract the Steve Scotts of that realm and has managed to keep them coming back.

The reason b-roll works is that the discussion often turns technical enough that the trolls have no idea what anyone is saying. When camera model numbers and format questions start getting bandied about, the trolls get bored or confused and wander off somewhere else to masturbate. It's the exact same reason the Weather board works here. The majority of the threads are technical enough that the trolls have no idea what's being said most of the time and have no idea how to jump in with a bad joke.

General journalism is not very technical. As a result, even the more craft-oriented or business-oriented discussions are accessible even to morons. Thus you can't really hold up the more technical forums as shining examples for Open Line to follow, because they are entirely different animals.

[Cheeky]

Originally Posted by Mighty Dyckerson

And I don't speak Spanish, so I can't answer your cojones question.

Bollocks, nadgers or plums, if you like

~Cheeky

[wxgeek]

Originally Posted by Murphy Brown 2003

It used to be a trade forum. I used to lurk when I was looking for my first job in TV (before I officially joined) and it was a fabulous tool. Most of the posts were about television stations, resume tapes, tips for those searching for jobs, advice on contract negotiations, agents, salary, etc. There were mentors who offered concrete advice on tapes (I sent my first tape to two posters, one of whom offered to put in a word to his news director for me) and even news directors who posted leads now and then.

There's still a place here to talk shop. It's called the J-Forum. You wonder why people don't go there? Because it's boring. People there are either looking for information on a single market (usually a market in which 85-90% of the posters have never worked, and thus can't contribute any info), or they're looking for advice which has been repeated ad nauseum. If you've seen one "The Job Posting Says 'No Calls'--Should I Call?" thread, you've seen them all.

The Open Line, on the other hand, has many new posts daily. It has life and energy precisely because of the freedom we're afforded there. It's the office water cooler, but with an added veil of anonymity that allows peoples' true opinions, prejudice, humor, and, yes, occasionally, vitriol to be displayed without fear of retaliation or sanction. It is a place where we can be unrestrained, and, in our stressful line of work, we need that.

Perhaps that wasn't the original intent, but that is what it has become, and forcing this community to become something it's not will be the death knell for this site.

For every person like Steve Scott who has left Medialine because they were offended by a Dyckerson poop joke, turned off by the political discussion, or just didn't like the unfocused nature of the Open Line, there are a dozen posters who would leave if it were toned down, sanitized, or regulated any more heavily than it already has been. Myself included.