DTV Transition Commercial

[BSUStormChase]

Don't know if anyone has seen this... Pretty good!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMeaX8Kz2TM

[Al Bedo]

Awesome.

I haven't seen much made of this on the wx side here, but does anyone else think that Feb 09 is going to be an unbelievable disaster? I know in my market we've got a lot of elderly who still only do over-the-air....parts of the region have no cable. I just smell a big problem.

[Dutra2418]

A lot...and I mean A LOT of people in ME get their signal ''over the air". I live in downtown Bangor(biggest city in our DMA) and our transmitter is on Black Cap Mtn in Hancock county (about 25 or so miles away). I BARELY get a solid signal downtown, and I know a lot of people in town who don't get it at all..so there goes a ton of viewers. Also, from my experience doing the hokey pokey around my apt to get a DTV signal for different stations is a huge pain, because you get all or nothing with a digital signal. Most people who live up in the mountains to the northwest get a lot of snow on the current analog setup, but they watch us because we are the ONLY station they get. With the "all or nothing signal" (see the hokey pokey sentence) I fear 90% of them will get nothing. Now normally, being a somewhat unsympathetic person I would say "too bad, buy cable you bum" but thats just not an option for a lot of people out in the sticks, because they don't actually run cable out to some of these towns. A lot of people cant get satellite either because they have a mountain/tree obstructed view of the southern sky. So to echo your concerns, yes. Yes, I feel that the DTV switch is going to be an absolute nightmare scenario. Further more, I think a lot of DMA's that have interesting terrain will find their viewing areas "shifting" to the new signal range, and the period during which this will happen will also be a nightmare.


Phew, I guess I needed to rant about that .

[Stormtracker_Tony]

Originally Posted by Dutra2418

A lot...and I mean A LOT of people in ME get their signal ''over the air". I live in downtown Bangor(biggest city in our DMA) and our transmitter is on Black Cap Mtn in Hancock county (about 25 or so miles away). I BARELY get a solid signal downtown, and I know a lot of people in town who don't get it at all..so there goes a ton of viewers. Also, from my experience doing the hokey pokey around my apt to get a DTV signal for different stations is a huge pain, because you get all or nothing with a digital signal. Most people who live up in the mountains to the northwest get a lot of snow on the current analog setup, but they watch us because we are the ONLY station they get. With the "all or nothing signal" (see the hokey pokey sentence) I fear 90% of them will get nothing. Now normally, being a somewhat unsympathetic person I would say "too bad, buy cable you bum" but thats just not an option for a lot of people out in the sticks, because they don't actually run cable out to some of these towns. A lot of people cant get satellite either because they have a mountain/tree obstructed view of the southern sky. So to echo your concerns, yes. Yes, I feel that the DTV switch is going to be an absolute nightmare scenario. Further more, I think a lot of DMA's that have interesting terrain will find their viewing areas "shifting" to the new signal range, and the period during which this will happen will also be a nightmare.


Phew, I guess I needed to rant about that .

The key would be to get an outdoor antenna...Using rabit ears at my house gives a decent analog pickup, but takes a lot of adjusting between channels to get digitals......On the other hand, with my yard antenna, I can easily get all of the in-market stations (even when the antenna is pointed the opposite direction causing an un-watchable analog picture, the digital comes in perfectly)...I can also grab a few stations from neighboring markets crystal clear in digital where the analog picture is extremely snowy..

So that will be the key...A lot of folks using rabit ears may have to resort to a yard antenna in order to keep getting their current stations...I don't see the transition being a widespread disaster, rather more of an isolated problem issue....Most people that use over-the-air should be able to just plug in the converter box and everything will be fine...Only difference I see will be those in some areas that do not have outdoor antennas will need to get one....

One minor issue that will need to be addressed heavily near the transistion period will be that everyone will need to "rescan" their channels on their digital sets/converter boxes when that day comes...As of now, local channel 5 (for example) may be broadcasting their digital output on channel 50 right now, but may reassign their digital to channel 5 once the analog stops...People would no longer be able to get the digital output until they rescan their system.......Many stations are staying with their "new" frequencies, but for the stations that are moving the digital back to their "old" frequency, I can see them getting a lot of calls that day from people saying they can no longer pick up the station....If your station is one of those, make sure you promote the rescanning of your tv/converter box to lessen the confusion..

[Dutra2418]

Originally Posted by Stormtracker_Tony

So that will be the key...A lot of folks using rabit ears may have to resort to a yard antenna in order to keep getting their current stations...I don't see the transition being a widespread disaster, rather more of an isolated problem issue....Most people that use over-the-air should be able to just plug in the converter box and everything will be fine...Only difference I see will be those in some areas that do not have outdoor antennas will need to get one....

Agreed, but I have an apt so that isnt an option. I think most of our viewers have outdoor antennas up in the woods, but still, the trees and mountains are a signal killer. Who knows, maybe it wont be as bad as it seems, but from early indications of people trying to switch, we may have a hard time..Then again, who cares about #153 haha.

[Brick]

FWIW, the digital TV signal, while it is all or nothing, "carries" farther and stronger than an analog signal. People who could never pick us up on rabbit ears on analog may be able to pick us up on digital. Outdoor antenna is still the best though...

Of course there will be some issues in the transition to digital, but I wouldn't put that on the top of our list of things to be concerned about in the TV business these days.

[rdale]

Originally Posted by Brick

FWIW, the digital TV signal, while it is all or nothing, "carries" farther and stronger than an analog signal.

I've not heard that and it doesn't seem to follow the laws of physics... Certainly not the case in my house as I can't get indoor reception of digital worth a penny with a "digital" antenna, yet my rabbit ears still do fine on analog.

[Bob Sakamano]

Brick - I'm not sure you are correct about the digital signal carrying further than analog. Even if in theory that is true, in most cases the pixels are not going to be there and you will end up with a blue screen.

A couple of months ago when they did the digital test in Wilmington, NC, you had entire towns that could no longer receive stations they had gotten for decades. The government poured tons of cash into that market in order to make people aware of the change, and it ended up being complete kaos. Mark my word, phones at TV stations will be going nuts. I've heard of some shops planning to bring in extra folks just to handle the phone calls. It won't be pretty.

[TRWXXA]

According to several articles, the FCC received almost 800 calls the first day of Wilmington's transition, and that's just one market. I would bet it may be near impossible for weeks if not months to reach someone with FCC about a problem starting February 17. They should just do this one market per week at a time and avoid this disaster.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6594869.html

[Stormtracker_Tony]

It's not necessarily that the signal "travels farther"...It travels the same distance, it's just that digital does not see the snowy interference that increases over distance....Typically if the analog reception is extremely snowy, but just clear enough to make out an image--then switching that signal to a digital broadcast should give a crystal clear picture except for maybe an occasional brief freezing of the picture/audio...

The problem is, we're comparing apples to oranges when saying "I can get the stations analog but not digital----or vice versa"

We're not getting both the digital and analog from the same transmitter...It's 2 transmitters (one analog and one digital) that are at a slightly different location and/or height on a tower/towers, broadcasting at different power outputs and on different frequencies.....

IE. Channel 5 analog broadcasting at 60kw on tower A at an altitude of 427 feet cannot be used to compare their digital broadcast coming from a transmitter of 4000kw a mile down the road on tower B at an altitude of 385 feet broadcasting on channel 50...

Those differences will skew the data and may make the digital come in with no watchable analog for some folks, while others may have an almost clear analog picture but no digital....My tv is the perfect example of this....I actually had this discussion a while back here on medialine......There is one station from my neighboring market that I get almost crystal clear on analog (VHF station) while they're digtial (UFH station) signal does not come in at all----Meanwhile, there's another station in that neighboring market that is almost completely snow on analog but comes in perfect on digital.....The only way to compare would be doing an analog broadcast followed by a digital broadcast, both on the same tower, at the same exact altitude, on the same exact frequency and broadcasting at the same exact power...Some stations are planning on doing that in February and if those stations come in at least half-way on analog, they should be perfect on digital.....Other stations, however, are planning on staying with their current secondary setup--those are the stations that will likely have the conversion issues of viewers not picking up the station anymore.

[TAFKA wacowx]

With deference to Tony and Rob, those digital signals DO 'carry' a greater distance than analog. It has been some egg in the face of the folks at the FCC, since they have had to request some local TX channels lower their output due to having 3 stations on the same frenquency. It's a big state of course, but there are issues with Waco, Dallas and Houston all having a channel 9. In fact, the PBS here is on 9, and their output is so low that I can't recieve while I get all other VHF and UHF digital signals clearly from the tower farm in the same location.

I have talked to engineers and they have told me that many people were suprised by how well the digital signal 'carries'. Now maybe it's the whole deal where you can can a cleaner signal from a weaker digital signal, but I believe they were talking about actual distance of travel....i.e. dBz loss vs. distance.

[TAFKA wacowx]

Originally Posted by Dutra2418

Agreed, but I have an apt so that isnt an option. I think most of our viewers have outdoor antennas up in the woods, but still, the trees and mountains are a signal killer. Who knows, maybe it wont be as bad as it seems, but from early indications of people trying to switch, we may have a hard time..Then again, who cares about #153 haha.

Terk makes the best indoor antenna IMHO...I went from getting 60-70% with an amplified antenna to 80-90%+ when I switched to a Terk. It costs about 60-70 bucks, but is VERY worth it.



...and not too horrible looking either.

[Bob Sakamano]

Originally Posted by TAFKA wacowx

With deference to Tony and Rob, those digital signals DO 'carry' a greater distance than analog. It has been some egg in the face of the folks at the FCC, since they have had to request some local TX channels lower their output due to having 3 stations on the same frenquency. It's a big state of course, but there are issues with Waco, Dallas and Houston all having a channel 9. In fact, the PBS here is on 9, and their output is so low that I can't recieve while I get all other VHF and UHF digital signals clearly from the tower farm in the same location.

I have talked to engineers and they have told me that many people were suprised by how well the digital signal 'carries'. Now maybe it's the whole deal where you can can a cleaner signal from a weaker digital signal, but I believe they were talking about actual distance of travel....i.e. dBz loss vs. distance.

This is what is happening to us. We're going from Channel 3 to Channel 7.

[wx or not]

Originally Posted by TAFKA wacowx

Terk makes the best indoor antenna IMHO...I went from getting 60-70% with an amplified antenna to 80-90%+ when I switched to a Terk. It costs about 60-70 bucks, but is VERY worth it.



...and not too horrible looking either.

Are you kidding? That thing looks like Pinocchio with antennae and Post-Its on its nose!

[wxspec]

dubaya dubaya dubaya

Kills me that the poor letter gets butchered to hell and back all the time.

[TAFKA wacowx]

Originally Posted by wxspec

dubaya dubaya dubaya

Kills me that the poor letter gets butchered to hell and back all the time.

What does this have to do with the DTV transition?

[wxspec]

nothing really, just *****ing about the VO guy in the youtube DTV spot.

[Ping-Pong Ball]

Originally Posted by Brick

FWIW, the digital TV signal, while it is all or nothing, "carries" farther and stronger than an analog signal. People who could never pick us up on rabbit ears on analog may be able to pick us up on digital. Outdoor antenna is still the best though...

Of course there will be some issues in the transition to digital, but I wouldn't put that on the top of our list of things to be concerned about in the TV business these days.

I will agree! I have an outdoor antenna with a rotor. If you know how to point your antenna (quiet Tony), you'd be amazed at what you can get. I get around ~50 DTV channels. Some of the stations' transmitter towers are over ~160 miles as the crow flies from my house. I wonder what else I will get when stations turn the juice up on their transmitters once analog is dead.

[TAFKA wacowx]

I commonly got Dallas stations from Waco. Ones I could never see in analog.

[Dutra2418]

Originally Posted by Ping-Pong Ball

I will agree! I have an outdoor antenna with a rotor. If you know how to point your antenna (quiet Tony), you'd be amazed at what you can get. I get around ~50 DTV channels. Some of the stations' transmitter towers are over ~160 miles as the crow flies from my house. I wonder what else I will get when stations turn the juice up on their transmitters once analog is dead.

50 DTV channels!?!?! It has got to be flat where you live...Thats crazy.

[inthefog]

Go back to Fractal Geometry and shape your antenna in that formation. That's what is in 99% of cell phones to eliminate the stubby antenna on the outside. For a very small size, you can get extremely good reception. I'm thinking about getting a coat hanger and shaping it like a Mendelbrot set and see if I can pick up stations from Santiago, Chile.

[horseshoe island]

After my experience with over-the-air digital, there are going to be a lot of viewers lost to a lot of stations....I could not get 2 affiliates at all, and I live right in the city. I think this will be the big story right after the analog transmitters go off.
I had an engineer tell me that the U.S. didn't go with the stronger, European form of digital transmission. real shame!

[Brick]

Originally Posted by rdale

I've not heard that and it doesn't seem to follow the laws of physics... Certainly not the case in my house as I can't get indoor reception of digital worth a penny with a "digital" antenna, yet my rabbit ears still do fine on analog.

Signal strength and transmitter location may be different, even though it's the same channel (at least that's the case in our market), so that'd be an experiment without a control, yes?

[Stormtracker_Tony]

Originally Posted by TAFKA wacowx

With deference to Tony and Rob, those digital signals DO 'carry' a greater distance than analog. It has been some egg in the face of the folks at the FCC, since they have had to request some local TX channels lower their output due to having 3 stations on the same frenquency. It's a big state of course, but there are issues with Waco, Dallas and Houston all having a channel 9. In fact, the PBS here is on 9, and their output is so low that I can't recieve while I get all other VHF and UHF digital signals clearly from the tower farm in the same location.

A little confused here...So the 3 stations that are on channel 9 analog have all 3 killed their analog and are now broadcasting digital on channel 9 at the same transmitter location/height/power and found that the stations are now interfering with each other when they never have before?

[TX WX guy]

I've heard from folks who could never before receive our analog signal now getting digital just fine. But the digital is on a brand new, taller stick.

The best experience I've had trying to get reception at different spots within a city is with a cheap, old set of rabbit ears. The amplified type of antenna actually wasn't working but the old, cheap antenna was.


I'm a little confused also on the channel 9 issue in Texas. But this is the same FCC that has crammed the FM dial, especially in some of those big cities, with just about every frequency possible. Sounds awful in many spots.