Pop music in feature stories

Kool Koozie · Jun 12th 2006, 12:09 AM

What rules do you follow when inserting pop music into feature stories when your station doesn't have an ASCAP or BMI license?

What's the fair use law?

I've heard 7 seconds. Is that 7 seconds of the music up alone and identifiable? Or can you have the music under a voice track for a little longer?

Yes, I know the ND should know his own station policy. But I'm curious as to how other stations interpret the rule.

slipstream · Jun 12th 2006, 12:17 AM

I always thought that if you didn't pay, you didn't play...

sonorandesert · Jun 12th 2006, 12:50 AM

I'll take a shot.
Spent some time in radio and the time of year to fear was either ASCAP week or BMI week.
An arbitrary time of reporting what was being played and by whom.
Name of song, who recorded it, who wrote it and when was it played?
Labor intensive for the jock, but imagine the schmucks in NYC who have to tabulate the information.

A "fair use" license?
Never heard of that.

However, I believe there is an "x" second window of use (maybe 10 seconds, TOPS) if the MELODY or BRIDGE is played, but no vocals. If vocals are used, then the producer or reporter must write down the pertinate information on a pre-printed form (see above).

Play a portion of "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida" (1 1/2 minutes with vocals, perhaps), have the checkbook out.
Play a snipet (an area that only a true Iron Butterfly fan would enjoy, but no vocals), that should be ok, but still needs to be reported.

BTW, the charge does depend on the size of any given market.
Radio or TV in Billings Montana will pay a fee, but it will be cheaper than the outlets in Las Vegas or Tucson.

I think I gave you a simple rule of thumb.

Anyone?
If I am mistaken, please enlighten me.

[ June 12, 2006, 02:04 AM: Message edited by: sonorandesert ]

Pro · Jun 12th 2006, 01:19 AM

The ONLY time - I believe - that you can use copyrighted music as part of a news story is when it is germaine to news coverage. If, say, the Stones are playing in your town, they'll allow cameras to cover their first song (in my experience, that was "Start Me Up", but it's been awhile). If you show a clip of that on your newscast, you're fine, it's news coverage. Also, if you do a story about an artist and voice-over a brief clip from a provided music video, that's OK, too.

But if you show the entire song from the concert or show the entire video NOT in context with a news story, then you might have license fee problems.

BTW, An ASCAP and BMI license doesn't give you unlimited use. It just covers your station for theme use. Someone from your station has to provide ASCAP and BMI with a list of your network, syndicated and local (including news) shows so your fee(s) can be divided up among the theme composers.

Kool Koozie · Jun 12th 2006, 01:24 AM

I'd heard that using 7 seconds of a copyrighted song is the rule in a news story. But I'm not clear if that means 7 seconds total or whether you can use a little more underneath the voice track to establish the music before you bring it all the way up.

Talking about audio only, no video.

TAFKA wacowx · Jun 12th 2006, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Koo Koo:
I'd heard that using 7 seconds of a copyrighted song is the rule in a news story. But I'm not clear if that means 7 seconds total or whether you can use a little more underneath the voice track to establish the music before you bring it all the way up.

Talking about audio only, no video.

I agree with the others and don't believe that is the case. UNLESS your station pays ASCAP or BMI fees already for usage of ANY music.

We pay fees at our local community theatre to be able to use SOME music as pre-show...and we are non-profit.

Can you get away with it? Maybe, but it's my understanding that it's illegal.

The Mockingbird · Jun 12th 2006, 03:02 AM

If your station isn't paying ASCAP or BMI...

It's 15 seconds or less of Nats, not full, but only if it's in the background, as part of a news story.

No use of any music full is allowed.

facts · Jun 12th 2006, 06:51 AM

Mockingbird, I believe, is describing the difference between ambient music and inserted music.

So, to answer the posters question (though none of us are music lawyers).. that would be 7 seconds of "I can't drive 55" in your speed limit story that you were lucky enough to record blasting out of a passing convertible. Not something you inserted off CD back in the edit bay.

[ June 12, 2006, 07:52 AM: Message edited by: facts ]

facts · Jun 12th 2006, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Koo Koo:

What's the fair use law?

Fair use -- which you can google -- says that you can use a clip of music or other copyrighted material when speaking DIRECTLY about that work.

So, for instance, someone writing a book review can reprint a paragraph of the book in his or her criticism of the overall work.

You could use a music clip of I can't drive 55 to talk about how Sammy Hagar sings differently that David Lee Roth, but you can't use it in a story about speed limits (see above).

Or get yourself a blanket ASCAP agreement and go nuts.

DoneThatToo · Jun 12th 2006, 07:14 AM

And please, don't set up a CD player and mic it and then try to pass that off as nat sound.

Yes I have seen people try to do that.

Kool Koozie · Jun 12th 2006, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by facts:
So, to answer the posters question (though none of us are music lawyers).. that would be 7 seconds of "I can't drive 55" in your speed limit story that you were lucky enough to record blasting out of a passing convertible. Not something you inserted off CD back in the edit bay.

Zero seconds of unless it was at the scene of the story?

facts · Jun 12th 2006, 07:34 AM

Right.

Kool Koozie · Jun 12th 2006, 07:40 AM

Is that a "better safe than sorry" policy at your station? Or is it your understanding of the law?

Does anyone actually know anyone who's suffered the consequences of using 5 seconds of a song in a news story? Or 10 seconds?

TXPhotog · Jun 12th 2006, 03:11 PM

It's been awhile since they last went over that with us here but it also has to do with how many times the story runs. I think it's somewhere between 15-30 seconds total but the story can only run once. I'll have to recheck with our lawyer at the annual legal seminar in a week.

Roy Hobbs · Jun 12th 2006, 03:17 PM

Gosh, there was a time when you told stories using natural sound and pictures.

News Is Broken · Jun 12th 2006, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roy Hobbs:
Gosh, there was a time when you told stories using natural sound and pictures.

Yeah, I sure am glad we don't have to do THAT anymore!

Jun 12th 2006, 04:14 PM

As a general, but not exclusive rule, it is not good technique. It's a cop out.

Why waste air time with pop music lyrics when you can make the point better with narrative track?

When I hear pop music in a feature story, my stomach curls and the channel changes.

You can do better.

1999

Spike · Jun 13th 2006, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by upandown:
You can do better.

1999

Oh, great. Now I have THAT song stuck in my head.

Kool Koozie · Jun 13th 2006, 03:57 AM

Pop culture references are that bad? I hear it all the time on the networks. The Today show and Dateline especially. Never bothered me before.

The Fedora · Jun 13th 2006, 04:41 AM

Gotta party like it's...

DAMMITTT!

Thanks U&D.

Jun 12th 2006, 12:17 AM	#2
slipstream Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: some say north... some say south Posts: 1,117	I always thought that if you didn't pay, you didn't play... __________________ "Enjoy every sandwich"

Jun 12th 2006, 12:50 AM	#3
sonorandesert Open Line Veteran Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: somewhere in the desert... Posts: 3,448	I'll take a shot. Spent some time in radio and the time of year to fear was either ASCAP week or BMI week. An arbitrary time of reporting what was being played and by whom. Name of song, who recorded it, who wrote it and when was it played? Labor intensive for the jock, but imagine the schmucks in NYC who have to tabulate the information. A "fair use" license? Never heard of that. However, I believe there is an "x" second window of use (maybe 10 seconds, TOPS) if the MELODY or BRIDGE is played, but no vocals. If vocals are used, then the producer or reporter must write down the pertinate information on a pre-printed form (see above). Play a portion of "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida" (1 1/2 minutes with vocals, perhaps), have the checkbook out. Play a snipet (an area that only a true Iron Butterfly fan would enjoy, but no vocals), that should be ok, but still needs to be reported. BTW, the charge does depend on the size of any given market. Radio or TV in Billings Montana will pay a fee, but it will be cheaper than the outlets in Las Vegas or Tucson. I think I gave you a simple rule of thumb. Anyone? If I am mistaken, please enlighten me. [ June 12, 2006, 02:04 AM: Message edited by: sonorandesert ] __________________ Q: "I want to ask the Beatles what they think of Barry Goldwater." PAUL: "Boo!" (shows thumbs down) "I don't like him, I don't like him..." Paul McCartney August, 1964 (During Beatles visit to Los Angeles)

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Jun 12th 2006, 12:09 AM	#1
Kool Koozie Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Koo Koo Posts: 154	What rules do you follow when inserting pop music into feature stories when your station doesn't have an ASCAP or BMI license? What's the fair use law? I've heard 7 seconds. Is that 7 seconds of the music up alone and identifiable? Or can you have the music under a voice track for a little longer? Yes, I know the ND should know his own station policy. But I'm curious as to how other stations interpret the rule.

Jun 12th 2006, 01:19 AM	#4
Pro Open Line Elite Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 31,979	The ONLY time - I believe - that you can use copyrighted music as part of a news story is when it is germaine to news coverage. If, say, the Stones are playing in your town, they'll allow cameras to cover their first song (in my experience, that was "Start Me Up", but it's been awhile). If you show a clip of that on your newscast, you're fine, it's news coverage. Also, if you do a story about an artist and voice-over a brief clip from a provided music video, that's OK, too. But if you show the entire song from the concert or show the entire video NOT in context with a news story, then you might have license fee problems. BTW, An ASCAP and BMI license doesn't give you unlimited use. It just covers your station for theme use. Someone from your station has to provide ASCAP and BMI with a list of your network, syndicated and local (including news) shows so your fee(s) can be divided up among the theme composers.

Jun 12th 2006, 01:24 AM	#5
Kool Koozie Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Koo Koo Posts: 154	I'd heard that using 7 seconds of a copyrighted song is the rule in a news story. But I'm not clear if that means 7 seconds total or whether you can use a little more underneath the voice track to establish the music before you bring it all the way up. Talking about audio only, no video.

Jun 12th 2006, 03:02 AM	#7
The Mockingbird SECRET NO/FORN Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: An Orbiter Posts: 16,660	If your station isn't paying ASCAP or BMI... It's 15 seconds or less of Nats, not full, but only if it's in the background, as part of a news story. No use of any music full is allowed.

Jun 12th 2006, 06:51 AM	#8
facts Open Line Veteran Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 3,161	Mockingbird, I believe, is describing the difference between ambient music and inserted music. So, to answer the posters question (though none of us are music lawyers).. that would be 7 seconds of "I can't drive 55" in your speed limit story that you were lucky enough to record blasting out of a passing convertible. Not something you inserted off CD back in the edit bay. [ June 12, 2006, 07:52 AM: Message edited by: facts ]

Jun 12th 2006, 07:14 AM	#10
DoneThatToo Open Line Veteran Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Here, There and Everywhere Posts: 2,420	And please, don't set up a CD player and mic it and then try to pass that off as nat sound. Yes I have seen people try to do that.

Jun 12th 2006, 07:34 AM	#12
facts Open Line Veteran Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 3,161	Right.

Jun 12th 2006, 07:40 AM	#13
Kool Koozie Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Koo Koo Posts: 154	Is that a "better safe than sorry" policy at your station? Or is it your understanding of the law? Does anyone actually know anyone who's suffered the consequences of using 5 seconds of a song in a news story? Or 10 seconds?

Jun 12th 2006, 03:11 PM	#14
TXPhotog Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 678	It's been awhile since they last went over that with us here but it also has to do with how many times the story runs. I think it's somewhere between 15-30 seconds total but the story can only run once. I'll have to recheck with our lawyer at the annual legal seminar in a week.

Jun 12th 2006, 03:17 PM	#15
Roy Hobbs Open Line Effete Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Between Gil, The Thrill and Kurtis, Bill Posts: 22,303	Gosh, there was a time when you told stories using natural sound and pictures.

Jun 12th 2006, 04:14 PM	#17
upandown Guest Posts: n/a	As a general, but not exclusive rule, it is not good technique. It's a cop out. Why waste air time with pop music lyrics when you can make the point better with narrative track? When I hear pop music in a feature story, my stomach curls and the channel changes. You can do better. 1999

Jun 13th 2006, 03:57 AM	#19
Kool Koozie Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Koo Koo Posts: 154	Pop culture references are that bad? I hear it all the time on the networks. The Today show and Dateline especially. Never bothered me before.