RIP Rodney King

[Lazlo Toth]

Originally Posted by Sultanosurf

If only King's most famous line could be quoted correctly...

"This is a date which will live in infamy"?

[Another side]

Originally Posted by Sultanosurf

If only King's most famous line could be quoted correctly...

OK ... Clearly, you're itching for someone to say, "Please tell us."

So, please tell us.

[Stormtracker_Tony]

For the record, I don't know how to swim. I've never really had the urge to learn. I don't have a fear of water, but I just don't find getting in water to be all that exciting. I live about 2 hours away from the coast, yet it's been over a decade since I've went to the beach. I'm more of a mountain person.

As far as a large percentage of blacks not knowing how to swim, I can't really answer that. One thing that comes to mind is the whole issue of sunbathing. Whites have long had the goal of wanting to have a good sun tan. Jumping in water helps cool you off when you've been laying out in the sun for a while, plus water helps to reflect and enhance the sun rays allowing you to get a quicker and stronger tan. For these reasons, whites often tan near sources of water (beaches, lakes, backyard pools, etc.) giving them more access to water sources and more drive to want to utilize those water sources. Obviously, getting a sun tan is not a big hobby for blacks, so this may limit their time spent near water and the reasoning they want to be in/near water. At least that's the only reason I can think of.

Perhaps this also explains my lack of excitment toward water? Tanning has never been an interest of mine. I'm white as a ghost and try to avoid getting sun burn because of the skin cancer risks...Perhaps if I were into tanning like most white people, I would be more into water?

[Another side]

Originally Posted by Mr. Rugen

Marty doesn't want the answer.

That's true. In the one link I read it was flush with reasons for the lower percentage of blacks who know how to swm ... and the scholarly reasoning in his own links -- which he must not have read before posing his question -- is supported by comments by black readers.

Marty just wanted to turn the focus on black people. Because he's racist like that.

[Stormtracker_Tony]

Originally Posted by Another side

That's true. In the one link I read it was flush with reasons for the lower percentage of blacks who know how to swm ... and the scholarly reasoning in his own links -- which he must not have read before posing his question -- is supported by comments by black readers.

Marty just wanted to turn the focus on black people. Because he's racist like that.

The "scholarly reasonings" that I saw didn't seem too scholarly to me. It says because slaves were taught to fear water so they wouldn't escape. That type of fear is a learned emotion, not a genetic issue that you inherit from your ancestors. There's lots of things that I'm not afraid of that my parents and grandparents were afraid of...Likewise, there's things that they bravely did that I am afraid to do. That whole reasoning doesn't make any sense.

Likewise, the reasoning of "public pools were for whites only in the early to mid 1900s" doesn't make any sense either. This isn't the early to mid 1900s. A black person has just as much right to learn to swim today as a white person and it has been that way for many years. The only thing that would hold one (of any race) back from learning to swim today would be lack of interest in learning to swim.

The scholarly reasoning would be not to determine "why a large percentage of blacks can't swim" rather "why a large percentage of blacks aren't interested in learning to swim." The only thing that comes to mind for me is the whole connection between tanning and water that could limit interest.

[Another side]

Originally Posted by Stormtracker_Tony

The "scholarly reasonings" that I saw didn't seem too scholarly to me. It says because slaves were taught to fear water so they wouldn't escape.

We obviously read two different articles. The one I chose said nothing about escaping.

[Sultanosurf]

Originally Posted by Another side

OK ... Clearly, you're itching for someone to say, "Please tell us."

Not really. It's 'just' that King's line has become popular vernacular, with about 75% getting it wrong.

It's also ironic that some of the officers involved served more time than King did, although the conviction parole violation he was trying to avoid by speeding (In a Korean-built car) was for beating a Korean shop owner during a robbery -- with a large stick. There were a lot of ironies.

As for the King jokes, there were a few that were pretty funny, but this probably isn't the time and place. Maybe it wasn't appropriate humor back then, either, but it was a tough few days if you were looking for something to laugh about.

Did anybody at the time think a Hyundai could go over a hundred?

[Marty McFly]

Originally Posted by Another side

Marty just wanted to turn the focus on black people. Because he's racist like that.

So were the organizations who wrote the stories racist for writing them?

Originally Posted by Another side

We obviously read two different articles. The one I chose said nothing about escaping.

Then take 23 seconds and read the OTHER ARTICLE, you mental giant.

[Audacity]

We just had this conversation in our newsroom last week. Equal parts black and white personnel were part of the conversation. The number one reason given for black women not swimming was their hair! Most black women have a heckuva time getting their hair to look right because of its texture and thickness. Ruining all that effort by diving into a pool just isn't worth it.

For black men, the reasons given were a little more vague but definitely playing a role is that parents or elders didn't swim and there's no one to teach the next generation to swim. Why didn't the elders swim? Because, for a long time African Americans were prohibited from swimming in public pools or at public beaches. If swimming isn't part of a family's traditions, there's often no reason to teach someone to swim.

[Marty McFly]

And I get all that Audacity. I really do. I read the articles.

I GET IT.

What I don't get it is how a grown adult can't get into 3 feet of water in a pool, lift their legs up and move their arms to tread water.

[Mr. Rugen]

Originally Posted by Marty McFly

What I don't get it is how a grown adult can't get into 3 feet of water in a pool, lift their legs up and move their arms to tread water.

Lack of empathy will do that.

[Marty McFly]

Yes, having no empathy clouds my understanding of how someone can't move their arms in water...

Feel better?

[Mr. Rugen]

Originally Posted by Marty McFly

Yes, having no empathy clouds my understanding of how someone can't move their arms in water...

Feel better?

Do you? It's the reason you started the whole line of questioning in the first place, isn't it? So you could get so worked up about people not being able to move their arms in water?

[DoneThatToo]

Originally Posted by Audacity

. . . For black men, the reasons given were a little more vague but definitely playing a role is that parents or elders didn't swim and there's no one to teach the next generation to swim. Why didn't the elders swim? Because, for a long time African Americans were prohibited from swimming in public pools or at public beaches. If swimming isn't part of a family's traditions, there's often no reason to teach someone to swim.

So from this can we assume that blacks whos family has lived in and currently lives in non urban areas near water should have an equal percent of thier population who don't know how to swim as people of other races?

Just asking because as a white person who grew up in a non urban area I learned to swim in ponds, lakes and rivers. I also knew many people of both races (w/b) who did not know how to swim properly, meaning they would have to be rescued from literally getting in over thier head.

[22]

I am old and white. Can't swim.

[Marty McFly]

Well from the looks of things, the articles written about blacks not being able to swim are entirely raaaaaaaaaaaaaaacist, aren't they?

[Sultanosurf]

Originally Posted by DoneThatToo

So from this can we assume that blacks whos family has lived in and currently lives in non urban areas near water should have an equal percent of thier population who don't know how to swim...

Whatever the reason, the numbers of blacks (And now hispanics) who don't know how to swim is far higher than whites. My son taught swimming as part of his lifeguard gig, and it was presented as a stat. There was also a far disproportionate number less black or hispanic kids who were enrolled in swim lessons, which seems a natural connection. Hopefully, we're turning the corner so that more parents of all races enroll their kids early. (And hopefully my kid gets home safe today after his latest foray to Spain, Portugal, and England. He's been gone a long time)

Without knowing full details, my assumption with King is that alcohol was involved. But who knows. A guy from my golf group died two years ago, in great health and a good swimmer; he dove off a boat and never surfaced. And sorry Marty, but some people have just never been in that deep of water, and instead of instinct taking over, panic does.

One of the strangest stories was recently, when a 10 or 11 year-old who went to a muni pool, came home, and died two hours later. Cause of death was still drowning, for an inordinate amount of water in his lungs that he'd swallowed...

[Mr. Rugen]

Originally Posted by Marty McFly

Well from the looks of things, the articles written about blacks not being able to swim are entirely raaaaaaaaaaaaaaacist, aren't they?

Such a baby.

[Mom]

Originally Posted by Sultanosurf

One of the strangest stories was recently, when a 10 or 11 year-old who went to a muni pool, came home, and died two hours later. Cause of death was still drowning, for an inordinate amount of water in his lungs that he'd swallowed...

It's called "Dry Drowning."

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/249822...-dry-drowning/

[Diplomat]

My guess is that alcohol was involved as King had apparently never beaten his drug and alcohol abuse issues. It is sad for his family that he died. He did not deserve the beating he took twenty years ago. But I would disagree with Sharpton and others calling him a "civil rights icon." He was a small-time criminal who became a big-time victim and never recovered.

[Sultanosurf]

Dip, you know the horrible coincidence about the beating, right? LAPD had just instituted a new baton training schedule, which in the worst of all possible ideas, was scheduled before the officers' shifts. We always compared it to the Dodgers having batting practice before the game. Of course they were going to relish the chance to let loose...

[Diplomat]

Originally Posted by Marty McFly

So were the organizations who wrote the stories racist for writing them?



Then take 23 seconds and read the OTHER ARTICLE, you mental giant.

Excellent points, Mr. McFly.

[Diplomat]

Originally Posted by Sultanosurf

Dip, you know the horrible coincidence about the beating, right? LAPD had just instituted a new baton training schedule, which in the worst of all possible ideas, was scheduled before the officers' shifts. We always compared it to the Dodgers having batting practice before the game. Of course they were going to relish the chance to let loose...

Was not aware of that. Interesting.

[Mom]

I grew up a mile from the Atlantic Ocean and learned to swim by being dragged out into the waves by my older siblings and getting washed ashore time after time. I finally learned to get washed in on my own terms. I have several friends who don't know how to swim. Period. They've told me that if they fell in water over their heads they wouldn't konw what to do. I explained that moving your arms in a certain way would bring you to the surface. They looked at me like I had two heads.

And why is it that there seems to be an abundance of white men who go fishing, drink, don't wear a life jacket, fall in and drown?

[22]

Originally Posted by Mom

And why is it that there seems to be an abundance of white men who go fishing, drink, don't wear a life jacket, fall in and drown?

Just guessing here, but it might be because they drink, don't wear a life jacket, and fall in the water.

But like I said, that is only a guess.