StormChasers S3....

[Wedge]

Originally Posted by BadgerWXman

It's not about whether he's a nice guy or whether what he does is noble... I'm telling you it's all about:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxQhx4t1FmE

I really don't have a problem with Reed. Just that the producers have decided to make the show more about his over-the-top style rather than the actual storms. Unfortunately even The Discovery Channel is more about the show than the science. I guess stuff like that gets better ratings. Maybe I'll watch another episode to see if what I saw was more of an aberration. But what I saw was Reed yelling and jumping around along with a few other side characters who just seemed to be along for the ride. The storms were secondary.

Did not see Tim S. in the little bit I watched, but have always enjoyed his chase talks. I would love to see him on this show.

[Hipster Doofus]

Reed was a chaser for my former station in OKC when he was in college. He is obviously a good chaser, but what really impressed me was the way he marketed himself and sold his video. While other chasers we had would complain about how the $50 they were paid from the station would not even pay for gas.... Reed would show up at the station after a day of chasing with good video, and he would already have sold that video to the weather channel for $500 and to ABC for $1200 and would have the satellite time booked before he got to the station. He also would already have the interviews set up for GMA the next morning. Reed not only knows how to chase, but also how to make it pay the bills.... something 90 percent of the chasers I have run across cannot do.

[TVShootist]

Originally Posted by rdale

Just curious, since I've never chased with him - what makes a successful chaser rise to the top? How do you quantify something like that?

His success in storm chasing says it all. He's a great forecaster, he always tends to hit the nail on the head when it comes to forecasting and picking target areas. He always gets on the tornadoes even on the small storms when every other chaser targeted another area. He is passionate about furthering the science and learning whereas most chasers don't give a crap about learning more about the science.

[portinfru]

I did a 4-minute live window with Reed on the satellite tour he did to promote the new season. I wasn't out to play "gotcha," but I did work in a question to the effect of "What do you say to those in the meteorological community who think your methods are too risky?" He gave a pretty boilerplate response of "of course there's danger to it," etc. But I could see it kind of hacked him off, and he closed up a bit for the rest of the time. I'm guessing the usual media coverage is more "wow" and less analytical/scientific, and that's part of the issue here.

I'm not going to try to pass judgment, other than to say that it has to be a fine tightrope to walk. You're a very public face of a field at the interface of science and society, which has now been co-opted by popular media. I'm assuming his initial intentions are good -- advance the science, try to make a living at it, get some good video and a few thrills. But it's obvious that the show has changed the equation.

Look what "reality" TV has done to the Jon & Kates of the world (yeah, I went there). You have fans telling you how great you are, critics telling you you're a disgrace, and the people paying the bills (while making money off of your risks) trying to control how you do your job. It's quite a conflict, and I hope that people like Reed are comfortable with that pressure and find a way to balance it all.

I can't say I am a fan, but I also can't be certain I'd handle it much better personally. Just something to think about as we all play armchair quarterback.

[wx or not]

After last night's show, I don't see Joel working with Reed anymore. Joel really called him out. And Josh really put the hammer down on Sean. Can this show ever get back to storm chasing again?

[rdale]

Per Reed's FB update - I think the answer would be affirmative...

[wx or not]

Thanks, rdale. So much the drama last night, and so little the science. Although, seeing 40 support vehicles with Vortex 2 seems a little like a funeral procession...

[rdale]

Don't give away all the details Yankees were on - I didn't even know other channels continued transmitting...

[Ping-Pong Ball]

Originally Posted by BadgerWXman

And what's more important... gathering data that could help save lives,

Okay, I like the show. I'm grateful of the images & videos Reed has gotten. However, watching this week's episode, I don't want to hear any more ****** about gathering data that could help save lives. Reed wouldn't even share his radar frequency with the Vortex 2 Team. Basically meaning he would be willing to possibly messing-up or skewing the data collection of the largest scientific effort ever in tornado research! Vortex 2 is all about gathering data that could help save lives and team TVN wasn't on board to come out and simply tell Vortex 2 what was the frequency radar they were using? Yes, Josh was being a dick, but still, share the frequency without the drama if you're about science and saving lives.

If someone wants to put their life at risk so they can make a couple thousands of dollars, so be it. Myself, I'd pass on a $50,000 pay day if it meant putting myself in a position where I could be killed or seriously injured. Give me the choice of being broke or getting ten grand while possibly being sizzled by a power-line and I'll take the empty pockets.

I am sick and tired of the justification through the gathering data BS! If data is collected and then kept under lock and key, what good is it? If it's all about science, then share with the scientific community.

I also caught another storm chasing show this past week. It included two bafoons who were hurricane chasing. These idiots where near the eye wall when it came to shore. Part of what these chumps were blabbing about was how they were gathering important data for weather research. What tools did they have to gathering data? A video camera and a hand-help anemometer. Best part, as they went to use the anemometer, one of the dimwits said to the camera as he saw the results, "I bet the winds are a lot faster, but the heavy rain is preventing us from getting an accurate reading." That's data that's really going to save some lives and lead to ground breaking research.

I know a true show actually depicting what storm chasing really looks like would suck. How interesting of a show would it be if the program was driving in a car for 8 plus hours to only seeing storms for an hour and less than 10 minutes of seeing an actual tornado? I do get it. If you turn a whole season of chasing into 8 one- hour episodes ( which after taking out commercial time comes to less than 6 hours of actual program time) you're going to get a scenario that looks pretty exciting. If guys want to act like hormonal atmospheric convectively induced ejaculators, so be it. If guys want to risk their life to make a few bucks, I say it's a free country, so knock your socks off. But don't try to justify the weather woodies by using the gathering data for scientific purposes excuse. If data really was being collected by these guys, than I think it would be safe to say an economical hail resistant windshield would have already been invented and in use by now.

[BadgerWXman]

Originally Posted by Ping-Pong Ball

Reed wouldn't even share his radar frequency with the Vortex 2 Team. Basically meaning he would be willing to possibly messing-up or skewing the data collection of the largest scientific effort ever in tornado research! Vortex 2 is all about gathering data that could help save lives and team TVN wasn't on board to come out and simply tell Vortex 2 what was the frequency radar they were using? Yes, Josh was being a dick, but still, share the frequency without the drama if you're about science and saving lives.

If you ask me, Vortex 2 came across as another government-funded, poorly run, wasteful operation. How much did we learn about tornadoes that we didn't know already? It's just too damn big... no way to get in the action with a 40-car team. No way to get GOOD data without getting in the action.

And Josh was being a dick... he really has a major "holier than thou, smarter than thou" attitude. And I'm sure he is smarter than Reed, but it seems like Josh made a lot of mis-steps in the field over the last few seasons. He's mad Reed is a better storm-chaser. I got a really bad vibe from the vortex 2 team... like "excuse us, we're the government... stay off our wavelength while we waste time/taxpayer money"

Reed is ACTUALLY doing something that hasn't been done... measuring vertical velocity around the vortex of a tornado. You mean to tell me that getting live, up close vertical velocity radar readings from tornadoes isn't advancing the science?

The government is spending millions of taxpayer dollars on a huge project that hasn't yielded anything groundbreaking... they spend their time in "big, important planning meetings" with hundreds of people while the successful chasers are out on their way to the storms already. And even though I think Sean can be annoying, he made a light joke about the puppy, and Josh jumped all over him. Get over yourself.

If the government/nws wants to learn about what happens in a tornado, they should pony up for some high tech equipment, and send Reed into a storm with it because he knows how to intercept them.

[wx or not]

When it comes to Sean, I think he put it properly, himself, "I don't know anything about the science." Probably the most honest thing said on that episode. At least HIS motivation is clear: money. I come away from these episodes wondering what everyone else's motivation truly, truly is. Indeed, there is the science, but too much of this camera is turning honest scientists into fame whores.

[Ping-Pong Ball]

Originally Posted by BadgerWXman

Reed is ACTUALLY doing something that hasn't been done... measuring vertical velocity around the vortex of a tornado. You mean to tell me that getting live, up close vertical velocity radar readings from tornadoes isn't advancing the science?

Like I said, share the data. If it isn't shared, it won't advance the science. Release your findings to the scientific community. The data he's collected will only make a difference if the data is released to the scientific community for further evaluation and studying. My point was if you're doing it for research and the benefit of mankind, than share your findings. Don't keep your data under lock & key. Good science can only be done if data is shared.

[BadgerWXman]

Originally Posted by Ping-Pong Ball

Like I said, share the data. If it isn't shared, it won't advance the science. Release your findings to the scientific community. The data he's collected will only make a difference if the data is released to the scientific community for further evaluation and studying. My point was if you're doing it for research and the benefit of mankind, than share your findings. Don't keep your data under lock & key. Good science can only be done if data is shared.

I agree with that for the most part, but there probably is a lot of money to be made from discovering something new... so can we really blame him for being protective? He bought the radar, he's the one with the balls to get close to the storm, so he deserves to be compensated for that. Amirite?

[atutt]

Like Hipster, I remember Reed when he was wet behind the ears. He would stroll in 2001 at 3am after getting back from a chase and ask for help in getting video to air. In the beginning it was for the station, then it was for the weather channel and finally everyone that would pay.

A lot of haters on this board. Listen, the guy is extremely passionate and probably an adrenaline addict and definitely a tornado addict. The scene everyone is making a stink on with him yelling "back up" was actually him yelling at the Discover Channel car in front of him that didn't realize they were about to get smacked. They are all on open radio/mics so it was his attempt to get them out of harms way, but the DC edited the video to make it seem like he was yelling at Joel.

I saw last nights show when they took more of a "reality step" in TV bringing in the dynamic of the team. Joel is likely just tired and may be burned out a bit, he'll be back. Also, the chase season was somewhat of a dud, so they have to fill air time with something.

Finally, the radar thing is interesting. Yes he should have given the Vortex team the frequency, but he was protecting his private investment and doesn't want others to benefit off of his work. Those V2 radars are mostly C-band with a couple of X-band. Reeds is likely smaller than 3cm more like a lidar phased array panel which would not interfere w/the V2. It has low power and is likely built to be used up close w/a range around 2-300 yards.

Reed is a personality and people with personality get on TV and get a show that revolves around them. Time will tell if Reed get's caught up in and turns into a Josh W or if he stays true to himself. Just sit back and enjoy the ride and watch some incredible tornado video that most of you could only dream about.

[wx or not]

Good words, atutt. Call me unconvinced, however, as it seems as if Reed is allowing the "show" to come first. I know of his background, and yes, there are few true aficionados of chasing with the stamina and knowledge that Reed brings to the table. It just appears, and maybe because of editing, that he is becoming more of a promoter.

[atutt]

Originally Posted by wx or not

Good words, atutt. Call me unconvinced, however, as it seems as if Reed is allowing the "show" to come first. I know of his background, and yes, there are few true aficionados of chasing with the stamina and knowledge that Reed brings to the table. It just appears, and maybe because of editing, that he is becoming more of a promoter.

Yeah, work in our business long enough and you'll see some amazing things due to "editing". It can make the nicest guy out to be an ass and vice versa.

[rdale]

Originally Posted by BadgerWXman

If you ask me, Vortex 2 came across as another government-funded, poorly run, wasteful operation.

Wow - how much data of theirs have you looked at to make that conclusion? And it's not done yet, are you preforecasting that they'll do nothing next year too?

No way to get GOOD data without getting in the action.

Again - I'm curious how closely you tracked their chases last year. They seemed to have one great intercept and a few pretty good ones.

And Josh was being a...

Nice callout on a public forum. He's one of the best synoptic teachers on the planet, and probably knows more about Doppler radar than the rest of us combined. He's given up plenty of time going to conferences and teaching the rest of us.

Respect ain't what it used to be...

He's mad Reed is a better storm-chaser.

Huh? By what determination? I'm not sure if you ever chased before - but it's much easier to get one car with three college kids into a storm, versus a fleet of 40. I've seen research produced by Dr Wurman - I've seen nothing from Reed. What serves the science better?

You mean to tell me that getting live, up close vertical velocity radar readings from tornadoes isn't advancing the science?

It could be - what data has he published so far? I'm coming up empty on Google. Vortex 1 taught us about warm RFD's which look pretty critical for tornadoes, plus the importance of small-scale boundaries. What has Reed produced for the field?

And even though I think Sean can be annoying, he made a light joke about the puppy

Which was totally inappropriate for a scientific meeting - only said to draw attention to himself. That's fine (and of course expected) for TV, but not as part of a scientific project.

[rdale]

Originally Posted by atutt

Yes he should have given the Vortex team the frequency, but he was protecting his private investment and doesn't want others to benefit off of his work.

Just curious - how would giving Vortex the frequency range result in them benefiting?

Originally Posted by BadgerWXman

there probably is a lot of money to be made from discovering something new...

Huh? How much money did Vortex PI's get for the warm RFD and the boundary scale interactions? There's no money in this, just advancing the science so lives are saved.

[Note, the fact that I didn't call anyone names, or accuse people of being out for money, or lacking the skills to chase, etc. means I am jealous of all of them, so don't use that as a response ]

[atutt]

Originally Posted by rdale

Just curious - how would giving Vortex the frequency range result in them benefiting?

I think he kept it secret like a TV station keeps things underwraps from their competition until the unveiling. Besides, by giving them anything by design would allow them to steal it and use/develop that technology themselves. Shady people out there. By the way, I talked with Reed today, his radar is an X-band on the lower end of the frequency, Josh is on the upper end. There's also a lot going on behind the scenes that cannot be discussed in an open forum. Let's just say mets cannot play nice when it comes to research competition.

[rdale]

Originally Posted by atutt

Besides, by giving them anything by design would allow them to steal it and use/develop that technology themselves.

I understand that - but I don't see letting Josh know what range he's using would be enough info for Dr Wurman to "steal" that idea. And I'd be shocked if Dr Wurman never thought about vertical radar before... Thanks for clarifying though.

[Keyeser]

Didn't I see where Reed is a PhD candidate? He needs to play nice...even if it's for "politcal" reasons. If enough conclusions are drawn from both on and off camera, he might not get it. I know that would not be a good thing, but like I said..."politics".

[atutt]

Originally Posted by rdale

I understand that - but I don't see letting Josh know what range he's using would be enough info for Dr Wurman to "steal" that idea. And I'd be shocked if Dr Wurman never thought about vertical radar before... Thanks for clarifying though.

As I said, a lot more has gone on behind the scenes. Let's just say that Josh isn't the nice guy people here think he is when it comes to radar pissing matches. I really can't ellaborate more...that's Reeds call.

[BadgerWXman]

Originally Posted by rdale

Nice callout on a public forum. He's one of the best synoptic teachers on the planet, and probably knows more about Doppler radar than the rest of us combined. He's given up plenty of time going to conferences and teaching the rest of us.

Respect ain't what it used to be...

Take it easy my friend... do you think I was wrong? I just said he was acting like a dick... I understand that he's a great scientist, but he doesn't come across as a great guy from the show. He's condescending imo... I don't like people like that. I respect his work, the guy comes across as somewhat of an ass. Maybe I'll meet him someday and he'll prove me wrong... but if I was caught on camera treating people like crap, I'd expect to be called out on a public forum too.

[rdale]

Originally Posted by BadgerWXman

but if I was caught on camera treating people like crap, I'd expect to be called out on a public forum too.

Understood - however half of this thread says Reed's a great guy but the editing makes him look bad. Gotta go both ways.

(That's NOT what she said )

[BadgerWXman]

Originally Posted by rdale

Understood - however half of this thread says Reed's a great guy but the editing makes him look bad. Gotta go both ways.

(That's NOT what she said )

I base a good part of my opinion about someone on how they treat other people... sure Reed comes across as douchey sometimes, but he seems like a nice guy, even with the editing. Again, maybe I'm wrong... but that's just my impression from the show.