Advice for Journ Students--Breathe News?

[Fake Post]

Originally posted by overthehill:
You Medialiners are wise folks. Thanks for the great opinions.

By the way, I have been checking with the network anchors/reporters on their path(s) to where they are. Interesting, cause one of the biggest names on NBC News dropped out of college. Most have climbed via the affiliate ladder--market to market, til they reach an O&O where they're finally picked for the so-called Big Leagues. Several were fired on their way to the network. One told me--you're not really a good at this business until you've been fired (contract not renewed) or sued.

A couple started in radio and were asked to cross over to TV. I'm yet to meet a network correspondent who was magically brought from college to the Net.

By the way, I often use our Medialine discussions to supplement my lectures. There's real life wisdom among us!!!

Sorry about not being more specific.

I meant management types like Jeff Zucker, president of NBC Entertainment, who went from Harvard student to network job at NBC and then Exec. Producer for the Today Show.

I'd like to know how many management types were ecstatic to learn that they were being passed over for a promotion only to allow some smarta$$ed Harvard kid show them how TV News is done.

[ July 24, 2005, 02:45 PM: Message edited by: Fake Post ]

[my moniker]

Overthehill understands this business. He understands it well from first hand experience. He's a damn fine story-teller and a damn fine journalist.

It sounds to me that the network level advice is meant to pound out real journalists. No one should desire to be at the network level unless they are committed to news, facts, and history in the making.
Too many think that network level means celebrity. But when you look at those at that level who do it well, you're not looking at celebrities. We're not talking about Katie and Matt. We're talking about Robert Krulwich (spelling?) John Hockenberry, Bob Schieffer etc. Names that the kids in Overthehill's classes, certainly don't hold on the tips of their tongues.

But even that great advice doesn't take into account that the biz doesn't really work that way any more. Fresh, cheap faces are the easy get these days.

But even a love for news... the ability to eat sleep and breathe news isn't enough to get someone to the network level. These days it requires a degree of insanity, because the sane among us tend to opt out for love of family. As NYCMatt noted, we desire to live life instead of report it.

I'd venture a guess, that's why Overthehill is where he is and not at network... that incredible family of his.

One told me--you're not really a good at this business until you've been fired (contract not renewed) or sued.

Overthehill, you told me that very same thing - face to face a few years ago. Your version went something like this... "Everyone I know who has ever been fired in this business has gone on to something much better, and they're much happier" (I'm paraphrasing)
Let me just say, you were right.

Thanks man. It was an honor to have worked by your side!

[s'news]

Originally posted by Frogman:
If you love news, you'll do this without being asked or told.

Ditto this. You either have the news bug or you don't.

I have a J-school degree, by the way. It's helped me. But plenty of other folks don't, and that's also okay.

The advice overthehill got is valuable not because it is good or bad, but rather because it is true.

For whatever reason - greed on managment's part or dedication on the journalist's part, the unpredictable nature of the industry dictates that we keep doctor's hours, not bankers hours. We can judge for outselves which of those careers we are closer to, but there is no changing the fact that if you're gonna progress, the sacrifice you will make is that you will not have as full of a personal life as people in other industies.

So the question is really this: "Given that you are choosing to choose work over a personal life, can you live with that decision. Many can't, won't and shouldn't. Others say it is worth it.

Here are the reasons you should not choose that life:

- Money
- Advancement
- Recognition

Here is the reason you should choose it

- You believe in the nobility of telling good stories

That's it. Nothing else even comes close. I'm gonna get on the soapbox for a sec and say that there is a nobility in what we do when done correctly. There is a valued place, and there should be, for the man or woman who can answer the question "what happened?" and can provide a result for the person who says "tell me a story." It's not brain surgery, it's not rocket sience, it's just storytelling, but it has value, and if you believe in it, it can be worth the sacrifice. Just be aware of overthehill's excellent advice at the beginning, not at the middle or end of your career.

Please remember to keep a balance. The news biz can be a lot of fun, but you need some "me" time and some "family" time.

[Steve Scott]

Great thread, OTH! [img]smile.gif[/img]

It's real simple to me.

If, by the time they get to J-school or an internship, they haven't already been writing for many years, then I question their suitability or commitment to this business.

Seriously. Write early, write often.

Last, week, a 14 year-old mailed me, asking how and where he might get published, now. It was a perfect note...clear, concise, no grammatical errors.

That's the kind of kid who does well.

[ July 26, 2005, 10:31 AM: Message edited by: upandown ]

[zeppelin42]

Originally posted by upandown:
It's real simple to me.

If, by the time they get to J-school or an internship, they haven't already been writing for many years, then I question their suitability or commitment to this business.

Seriously. Write early, write often.

Last, week, a 14 year-old mailed me, asking how and where he might get published, now. It was a perfect note...clear, concise, no grammatical errors.

That's the kind of kid who does well.

Way back when, my sister and mother were discussing my sister's collegiate options. My sister said she wanted to go into journalism. My mother said, "I don't think that would be appropriate." My sister responded (seriously), "What's 'appropriate' mean?" That actually happened. Anyways, she became a psychologist. True story. Your story reminded me of it.
-z

[ksvisucks]

Do you think we work harder/longer hours than say--Lawyers, Doctors, Computer programmers, small business owners, accountants?
No, but the probably make more $$$ than us TV folk. Also, interesting to hear about the NBC guy straight out of Harvard. One of my previous shops (small market) hired a reporter straight out of Harvard. Without question, the dumbest f'n reporter I've ever seen in 12 years of TV. He didn't make his 3 month probation period, they fired him... and in this case, being fired wasn't a good thing. He's not in TV anymore thank God.

[Another side]

Originally posted by overthehill:
So, in case you guys/gals, haven't guessed by now, I teach journalism at the collegiate level.

Anyway, I was told this week, by some respected folks associated with NBC News, that I should tell my students--who wanna be on-air--their success/career depends on their "commitment" to the news business, their true passion to live and die, breathe NEWS. That if they got into TV news because they wanna be "on air," because of celebrity-like status or ego, they should change careers.

The NBC News folks told me: If you want to rise to network level talent, be ready for long hours, holidays, weekends, on call, pagers, life that you can't really call your own. If you want an eight hour a day job, look elsewhere.

Agree?

Absolutely. I know nothing about the networks, never touched them nor chased them (I made the majority of my money in print.)

But I, too, believe a couple of things that have been said by others:

One, if you value the term "I'm off," you are going to be outworked and outhustled most of your career, and if you're seeking advancement, it will come slowly, if at all.

Despite the impressions one might get on these boards from time-to-time, I suspect many of the reporters and writers who frequent here pull out all stops in pursuit of their stories. Not in pursuit of the money, or the celebrity, or the network anchor chair, -- the story. The quality of their lives, the value of their supposed "free time," vacations, multiple family outings, are all secondary considerations. If you can't or won't hang, you don't have much of a chance.

Second, I'll add to Upanddown's point, which I consider the bottom line, whether print or broadcast: If you do not get up every single morning wanting to write, needing to write, willing to fight for, or at least justify, every word you gave to your producer or editor, you are either misguided or an out-and-out sham.

Either way, it will be disovered and sooner or later someone wise, with authority, will counsel you to consider another profession. It is counsel you should take.

[ July 28, 2005, 12:45 AM: Message edited by: Another side ]

[mothball]

Originally posted by kim jung il:
If You Breathe News? ...

...it will kill you ...eventually.

---------------------------
Maybe? ...Make "Secondhand News" Warning Labels for News Watcher.

Same thing can be said for air. I mean, really -- ask anyone over 150. Can't find anyone over 150? They must have breathed the air.

Or drank water -- I hear it has a high mortality rate, too.