When is it time to get out?

[Reporter4]

I've always loved reporting and journalism. I can't really imagine myself doing anything else. However, I've become more and more frustrated lately with newsroom politics. It's unbelievable how managers seem to handle everything. I just don't get it and I wonder if management is like that in other professions.

My question is --- how do you decide if you want to keep doing tv? There are so many sacrifices, but also so many rewards. I'm still relatively young and could probably change careers easily. However, I'm afraid I would regret it!

I'd love to hear what people on Medialine have to say about this subject...

Thanks!

[TVMattNYC]

I've always loved reporting and journalism. I can't really imagine myself doing anything else. However, I've become more and more frustrated lately with newsroom politics. It's unbelievable how managers seem to handle everything. I just don't get it and I wonder if management is like that in other professions.

My question is --- how do you decide if you want to keep doing tv? There are so many sacrifices, but also so many rewards. I'm still relatively young and could probably change careers easily. However, I'm afraid I would regret it!

I'd love to hear what people on Medialine have to say about this subject...

Thanks!

GET OUT NOW.

I'm one of the ones who stayed. It only gets harder as you get older, more experienced, and better paid.

GO.

NOW!

[adam & doctor drew]

get to a GOOD station if you can... I know, there aren't many.
then see if you still have the same frustrations.

if you do, it's time to get out.
but many of the frustrations people feel, IMO, are due to working for next to nothing in podunk markets at bad stations run by idiots.

don't let that drive you out if you truly have a passion for the work.
just try to get to a better place that shares your same values.

[Quagmire]

Matt is right in one regard. I am now at a point where I would have to make at least 85 % of my current pay at whatever job I take next. Life gets more expensive the older you get. Staying in making 35k will make the only entry level PR job you can find paying 25k look impossible, keeping you in the frustration of TV.

[TVMattNYC]

many of the frustrations people feel, IMO, are due to working for next to nothing in podunk markets at bad stations run by idiots.

Working for great $$$ in the nation's largest market at networks run by idiots is no picnic, either.

[east coast producer]

It only gets harder as you get older...

You, if anyone, should know!

*ba-dum*

[ewink]

My question is --- how do you decide if you want to keep doing tv? There are so many sacrifices, but also so many rewards. I'm still relatively young and could probably change careers easily. However, I'm afraid I would regret it!

Personally, if you have to ask, the time is now.

And Matt is right. The older you get, the harder it will be.

You will miss parts of it, but if you find something you like that is less stressful, pays more and makes you happy, then what's the problem?

[Gail sirens]

Management is like that in most professions!!

[Spike]

You will miss parts of it...

I don't.

Management is like that in most professions!!

I have found that not to be the case. I have worked in factories, warehouses, food service, radio, television, film, accounting and even a zoo. In general, television has the worst management by far. In other industries you don't have the people lined up to take the jobs, so retention is a bigger issue, and managers who drive away good people are less often tolerated. I have worked in an office where you could pick out the characters from Office Space, and even that was run better than television.

It won't get better, even at a "good" station. Get out.

[Marty McFly]

The problem isn't the station... it's the FIELD!

No matter where you go in tv, it will only be a matter of time until you (you in general) are complaining again about the things you thought were no longer an issue.

When folks say that when/if you get that there will be parts that you miss... there guys who miss parts of prison as well. Keep that in mind!

[22]

ewink nailed it.... If you are asking the question, it's time to start looking.

[Jane Craig]

All jobs have their good and bad points, and management cluelessness, lunacy and/or mean-spiritedness can indeed be found in way too many places.

The issue is the distinction between wondering whether you should stay at a particular place or are questioning the whole field. 22 is correct -- when you start looking askance at the entire line of work, you need to start exploring options.

The industry has changed a great deal over the last ten years and is not the career path it used to be. Factor that in and decide whether it's time to learn more about what else might be out there for you.

Best of luck in finding a place and work that make you happier.

[TAFKA wacowx]

It is the field. As Spike said, in no other field are there hundreds upon hundreds of fresh-faced college grads beating down the doors to get into an industry, willing to do anything to get a start... READ: take extremely low pay.

This continues to lead to smaller and smaller salries not only for starting people, but in the industry as a whole. Even folks who have been at a station for a long time...perhaps ESPECIALLY people who have longevity, are being asked to take pay cuts or are being let go in favor of lower-salaried, younger and less-experienced workers.

Even you long-timers who are afraid to leave may one day in the VERY near future, discover that you are being asked to live on 80% of your current salary with NO hope of an increase down the road.

I ask what is better: taking a pay cut now while transitioning to a new field where the prospects for the future are better? OR being trapped in your job and forced to take a similar paycut or perhaps being let go with little to no notice?

I say, prepare yourself for the worst and expect the cuts to come. You will be in a much better situation overall.

And I agree with Spike, management in other industries blows away TV management. In years past, they had to work hard at retention, but they do not have to do that anymore so it doesn't matter if employees are happy. Other business struggle to keep their employees happy. I have worked in almost as many fields as Spike and I can attest that recent TV management is THE worst. Once you leave the field, you will see how backward TV management truly is.



So yes, if there is any question or doubt in your mind...move on. I have been out over a year now and I am much, MUCH happier.

[The Mockingbird]

You're giving away the milk in an industry that loves to use you up and grind you to hamburger.

Run far away, get a real job.

[Roy Hobbs]

Listen to Commander Kruge:

http://www.startrek.com/imageuploads/200508/mov-003-kruge01/320x240.jpg

Get OUT!!!! GET OUT OF THERE!!!!

http://www.jammersreviews.com/images/misc/spock/ent_explosion.jpg

[Another OMB]

Reporter 4, I agree with the other posters. Right now, you seem to like the business but don't like management. In a few more years, the management will be the same (or worse), but you will like the field itself even less.

It's exciting and interesting when you first get into it, and I also have a hard time imagining doing anything else. (Which is my problem, by the way. I'd like to get out, but don't know what else I'd do).

The fact that you're already questioning whether to stay is a good indication not to, as others have said. And they're also right about doing it before it's too late. In my case, I've been in the business for more than 23 years now. With a wife and two kids, it wouldn't be possible to transition to another field where I'd be making significantly less because I'd be starting over.

Get out now while you can afford to, literally. It may seem like a contradiction to say "the pay in TV stinks so you'd better find something that pays more" and "after so many years I'd take too big a pay cut to do something else". But we do get raises (albeit small ones) and do move up to markets that pay more. After 20 years of that you're still not making what others your age are, but you're making more than starting pay in whatever you're likely to move into.

[trunky]

OR...

Identify an emerging area of news (read: new media).
Become a manager in said area.
The future there remains unwritten.

[Bill-1]

My favourite from the film Broadcast News is "You're lucky if you can get while you can still cry." I think that about sums it up.

[ewink]

I don't.
LIES!!!

[Who Cares???]

My favourite from the film Broadcast News is "You're lucky if you can get while you can still cry." I think that about sums it up.

Good Point...

Here it is six years after I retired and I'm still have nightmares about the death and destruction is saw during my career. Having pretty much stayed in the same market the whole time... It's difficult to even drive through town with out seeing a location where something (bad) happened...

There... I said it...

[Reporter4]

Thank you to everyone who replied to my question. I am really wrestling with this right now. I remember how "idealistic" journalism seemed in college. Now, after about five years in the business, I still believe in the profession. However, the flaws are becoming more and more apparent.

I am just really confused...and a little scared to get out of TV. I still love the ability to tell a great story with compelling pictures and nat. sound. I like being where important things are happening. I like being able to be out in the community all day as opposed to being stuck at a desk.

At the same time, I really can't stand many of the people who work in my newsroom. Many of them are rude or bitter and they seem to make irrational decisions. Also, it's hard to trust anyone in a newsroom. People seem ready to "backstab" you whenever they can.

I wonder if it's worth it to "stick it out" at the station I work at...(i have about a year left on my contract)... and then give it a try somewhere else.

I am getting very frustrated nearly every day with what happens at work. Friends say I should just focus on moving to another market, but a year is a long time to be planning your "escape!" Any other thoughts?

[Nino Giannotti]

I posted this this morning of TVSpy in response to a similar concern that appears to be a major topic these days.

A few words from someone who has been in the TV business for 38+ good years and no regrets.

If you really want to get out of the news business this is probably the best time to do it as the industry is currently into a big mess. But if you are like me and got into the business because it's something that you like to do then making a decision will be painful and might be costly too.

To start, I'm a freelancer and been out of the daily grind of the news business most of my career, it only took me less than two years to realize that the news environment wasn't for me, don't get me wrong, I love the work but hated the a**holes that I had to deal with everyday. On occasion I still do national news gigs for the major networks but like most freelancers I pick and choose the jobs. Most of my work is for ESPN and all their affiliates, I also have some very loyal commercial accounts that I've been serving for 20 years. What got me into ESPN were my lighting skills that I learn in art school over 40 years ago. When ESPN Classic Sport Century was created and producers started demanding a higher quality product that not many in the TV business were able to provide, I was in the right place at the right time and I had what they were looking for. That classic look that we created back then has remained a high standard for quality interviews worldwide. Lighting of course is not the only important skill but its the one that will immediately show that you can do more expensive jobs.

News is less then 10% of television business and is the 10% that is having serious problems. There's another 90% of TV work out there that you don't hear much about it and it's doing very well. There's also 10 times more video work outside the TV business. Granted there are ups and downs in every job but overall business has been increasing every years. The expansion in HD programming, both for television and in the private sector has been a major bust to freelancer revenues.

This message is for those who wants to stay in the TV business. To make the transition to freelance, either full or part time, you have to learn more, much more. The simple way to know what to do is to look at national shows on you TV and ask yourself, can I do all that? Be honest to yourself because if it will ever happen you will only have one chance to prove that you can do it. If you don't think you can do it then learn. We are fortunate in this business, your teacher is right in your living room, look and learn.

Don't make the mistake that most news cameramen make when I hear: "I never get use it so why should I learn". If you think that someone will offer you a position with a higher salary so you can learn at their expenses then you have a long wait. But, if you have those skills you'll be much more marketable. It will not happen overnight and it's up to you of how aggressively you want to move up, but when it will happen it will change your life. It happened to me and to many others.

The market is changing and so should you. Diversify your skills and keep your eyes open for all the opportunities.

[MyracleMan]

I've only been in a few years longer than you, and I' m fighting like hell to get out and get a normal life. You'll find the longer you stay in the business, the older you get, the more your priorities change. I used to get real excited about the prospect of breking news, investigative stories, and really making a difference in peoples' lives... now, I realize that's a rarity in the industry any more. Instead, i'm on call 24/7, and don't get paid for it, I work awkward schedules that don't correspond with those of the other people in my life, we keep being asked to do more and more with less and less, and expected to not spend any money to do it, and my overall job satisfaction is in the toilet.

Why?

Because I'd rather work in a field that allows me to leave it all at the door when I go home. I'd rather not have nightmares about calling and punching a show that's falling apart, and instead of pulling it out like I normally do, it falls apart and there 's nothing I can do about it. I'm tired of hearing stories about people who have motorcycle/car/boating/atv accidents, and the first question out of my mouth being, "Do we have the corpse?"

Most of all, I miss my wife. I've been married for a little under four years, and we're lucky if we see each other two nights a week. We just got back from our first vacation together in three years last week. We don't have kids yet, becasue in order for that to happen, we both have to be conscious under the same roof at the same time.

I want kids, family, and a relatively normal life. TV is a creature that will never allow you to do that, unless you're one of the lucky few to get into management at a top 75 station that isn't owned by a nightmare group and run by an incompetent management team. If you're lucky, you'll make it through relatively unscathed. If you're like the rest of us... you'll get chewed up and spit out, only to be replaced by someone younger, prettier, and less talented who will work for much less.

In short... get out now.

Do something else that will make you happy, give you purpse, and allow you to make more money.

Find someone you'll be happy with, settle down, and do something really important... raise a couple of good kids to be smarter than you, and enable them to make a difference in the world.

[AutoTranz]

Two words:

Commercial Production

Hours? Mon-Fri, 8-5. Holidays off. Saturdays/Sundays? Off.

Monday is Labor Day. My colleagues and I are off on Labor Day, and were sent home at 2pm "because the business offices close at 2pm on a Friday before a holiday." As a former newscast director, this is living in heaven compared to my former life.

Case in point: getting out of NEWS doesn't necessarily mean you have to get out of TV. I'm still doing what I love...shooting, editing, some live production at times. In the process, I get to have a life.

If you're not of the production fabric, try sales or marketing/promotions. I preach this to my reporter/anchor friends, but some of them are too egotistical to let put down the make-up & microphone.

Every morning I wake up, I say a little "thank You" prayer...

[Spike]

Monday is Labor Day. My colleagues and I are off on Labor Day, and were sent home at 2pm "because the business offices close at 2pm on a Friday before a holiday."

Yeah, our office closed at 3 today, and I get a much needed rest Monday.

It's so much better out here.

[ewink]

Yeah, our office closed at 3 today, and I get a much needed rest Monday.

It's so much better out here.
I have Labor Day off too...

Granted I have to work tomorrow and Sunday.... Then Tuesday and Wednesday...

[FrontierMan]

Get out while you can! The business is in shambles as it is, and it's best to learn something new at this point. Ratings most everywhere are not as high as they used to be. Some predict these layoffs could continue for the next 20 years -- even after the economy gets out of the mess it's in.

If I didn't get laid off a few months ago, I'd roll my eyes at my very own comments. I'm not trying to be cynical, I'm being honest about the business heading into a new direction. Some may call it "survival of the fittest," but I'll tell you now that the bottom dollar is more important than talent these days.

I'm pissed I got the boot, but it gave me the chance to get out of the biz and pursue something else before I get old and wrinkly. Get out while you can. You don't want to get laid off after you've been anchoring for 20 years. The younger you are, the easier it is to try something new.

Try something new on your own terms. Don't do it after 35 newsies at your station (including yourself) get canned.

[Sir Dropham Pants]

I'm a little late to the party, but I'll echo what some said earlier... if you're asking the question, the time is now. Once you leave the newsroom mentally, it's hard to go back. And I'll second or third what others have said about missing it. I have not, and if you leave for a good job, I doubt you will either.

[Sultanosurf]

Whine-whine-whine.

God, please leave. Part of this gig is some people are wound tight. But isn't the old saying something like 'the greatest pressures make the rarest jewels'?

Funny how many people are so-o-o glad to have left the biz, yet spend thousands of posts here pontificating.

To the original poster, try for an investigative unit or special projects. They're rare, but still out there. Then you don't have to spend much time with the crazies.

But to everybody else, please, leave. Now. Go find that safe PR gig where you can have the pics up in your cubicle and that warm Dunder-Mifflin feel. Our hours are weird, people, too . But you see things first, have more insight, and some of us continue to do something we love. So quit messing up our groove and go. Now.

[Spike]

But isn't the old saying something like 'the greatest pressures make the rarest jewels'?

A vat of excrement will never produce jewels, no matter how much pressure you apply to it.

[cobracat]

...when it isn't fun any more.

You'll know when that time comes.

[Sultanosurf]

A vat of excrement will never produce jewels, no matter how much pressure you apply to it.

Hey, that was your experience. And you left. Great, if only more malcontents would! Now you're safe to serve up the cynicism from the sidelines. (BTW, I'll add that's probably our industry's loss, since otherwise you seem like a bright guy)

But plenty of others still love their jobs, try to make it enjoyable, and sure find it easier when there are people there who share the same positive attitude.

Enjoy your weekend off.

[Spike]

But plenty of others still love their jobs, try to make it enjoyable, and sure find it easier when there are people there who share the same positive attitude.

Obviously the original poster isn't one of them. Reporter4 specifically asked about getting out. Some of us who have gotten out responded with positive encouragement to do so, to let Reporter4 know that he/she is not alone and to help settle his/her fears of making the wrong move.

It seems to me that you are the one in the wrong place. If you didn't want to read about people getting out of the business, why did you click on a thread entitled "When is it time to get out?"?

[Sultanosurf]

The same as you. If they don't have the love or the fire -- to encourage them to Get Out.

If they wanna stay, as I said before, there are still places like special units or I-teams, and I especially disagree with your acidic statement "It won't get better, even at a "good" station" because there's a reason those stations are good, there are good people there. I'm usually the most supportive and love to mentor, but some places are just toxic, and they're usually the ones with the least viewers.

Spike, on top of your negativism and cynicism, are you now telling us that only you can decide who posts?

[Spike]

If they wanna stay, as I said before, there are still places like special units or I-teams, and I especially disagree with your acidic statement "It won't get better, even at a "good" station" because there's a reason those stations are good, there are good people there.

I went to one of the so-called "good" stations. It still has that reputation, and you would recognize the call letters. We had a documentary unit and an investigative unit, both dropped while I was there. Our documentary reporter, who had actually been doing hour long documentaries in HD, found himself doing live shots in front of single car accidents instead. The news director was a joke, two of our three executive producers were clueless incompetents and the chief photog turned out to be an ******* who blatantly played favorites worse than any other station at which I worked. Sure, we still had a lot of good people working there, trying to do good work under adverse circumstances, but the station sucked because management was full of morons.

The point is that there's no guarantee a shop with a reputation as a good station will actually stay that way, nor even that it will be that way when you get there. All it takes is a change of ND to turn it bad. All it takes is a change of GM to make it even worse. All it takes is a change of ownership to make it a disaster. And with the increased economic pressure on television stations to cut costs and increase revenue, the number of these good stations is shrinking.

It isn't the individual stations that are the problem. It's the industry as a whole that has gone rotten. Why should someone who doesn't enjoy what he's doing stick around and keep wasting time in the hope that he might stumble on a good situation in an industry in which good situations are an endangered species?


Spike, on top of your negativism and cynicism, are you now telling us that only you can decide who posts?

Well, if that's not the pot calling the kettle black, after you criticized people for posting advice to get out in a thread about getting out.

[Sultanosurf]

Well, if that's not the pot calling the kettle black, after you criticized people for posting advice to get out in a thread about getting out.

Oh, I didn't criticize anybody for advising to get out. I said Get Out.

And after hearing all of what you've said (And I mean this in the nicest way possible), I'm probably as glad as you are that you're out...

[John M.]

It's unbelievable how managers seem to handle everything. I just don't get it and I wonder if management is like that in other professions.

Yes, management is like that in most professions. Anywhere there is an office there are office politics. But it's greater in TV where there are so many more applicants than jobs available and where so many of the employees suffer emotional insecurity.

It does not improve as you go up in market size in my experience.

There are people who seem to deal with it better than others. They're able to stay above the pettiness and bitterness that seems to infest many newsrooms. Some of the posters here sound like the type who are determined to be miserable and who thrive on fanning the flames of discontent among their co-workers.

My question is --- how do you decide if you want to keep doing tv?

First, forget all those who say that just by asking the question you have already decided the answer. It's perfectly natural to have doubts about your career choice -- whatever the profession.

One way to tell if you should stay is to ask yourself whether you see yourself doing this in five years. Presume the conditions are similar to the ones you work under now even if you're in a different market. Does the idea appeal to you?

Another way is to gauge your feelings going into your weekend. Everyone looks forward to getting away from the office. But how do you feel the night before you have to go back? I knew I had a problem in my last full-time TV job when as soon as I finished my shift on Friday I started thinking, "Oh, no. In just two days I have to come back to this place."

But if your days off still refresh and recharge you for the next week, if you finish a workday as often as not thinking you've accomplished something or improved your skills and if the achievements outweigh the aggravations, then don't let the bitterness of others cloud your judgment about something you ultimately must decide for yourself.

[Sir Dropham Pants]

I'm one of those who said, "if you're asking, it's time." That was my experience. I worked in news for many years - and loved it for most of those years. Didn't mind the hours, didn't mind the sometimes unpleasant aspects of the job. At one point, it stopped being an enjoyable way to make a living. I started thinking, "It's time to go..." more and more often. It didn't take long for me to feel like I was dragging myself into the newsroom every day. So I made that point not out of bitterness, but out of personal experience.
I have a lot of good friends still doing the job. Some still love it. And I respect them for that; it can be a hard job to love for years on end. And even hard to do it well.
But if the original poster doesn't feel that love for the craft and the job anymore and is asking himself whether or not it's time to go, my personal experience is - yep.