Tropic Thunder Controversy

[Clapper]

There is a monstrously offensive and harmful scene between Ben Stiller and Robert Downey, Jr. in the new movie "Tropic Thunder". Harm was done to millions of defenseless children and their devoted parents. Now, apparently, it is ok for everyone to use the phrase "Full Retard". In fact tee shirts are already available online that say, "Never go full retard".

Perhaps someone here can give parents some pithy advice as to what they should tell their darling, innocent, special needs children when they see one of these tee shirts. Would it be ok for me to wear a tee shirt that read "Never go full nigger"?

With the insensitivity towards people with disabilities in Hollywood, it's not out of line to be worried about how people will view this film.

Considering how people with disabilities are frequently portrayed in pop culture and treated in society it's frequently frustrating how Hollywood feels it's fine to have someone in a movie casually call a friend of theirs a "retard" or "doing something retarded."

With comedians on television, radio, and movies using what is viewed by many in the disability community as hate speech and even having major news sources describing the pulling of the Simple Jack movie trailer as "studio goes 'no retard,'" how are people who spend their time trying to make sure everyone gets equal treatment supposed to think?

To many people it might just be a movie making fun of people across the spectrum but it's a very unbalanced portrayal.

Number of repetitions of the word “retard” or its variations: At least 16 in the “full retard” scene alone, not counting the uses of words like “idiot,” “moron,” “moronical,” “imbecile,” “stupid,” “dumb” and “the dumbest M*****F***** that ever lived.” All are used to describe the character of Simple Jack..."

In a conversation with his agent... ...Stiller’s Speedman talks about his plans to adopt a child. “At least you get to choose yours,” says the agent, looking sadly at a photograph of himself with a slack-faced teenaged boy who appears to have an intellectual disability. “I’m stuck with mine."

I honestly do understand the joke that they were trying to do in this movie. Seriously, I do. I understand that in Hollywood it's apparently the big joke that if you play someone with a disability, you're more likely to be nominated for an academy award.

The issue isn't that at all, however. Nor is it how people with disabilities are represented in movies. The issue is the execution of the joke. I have spent years witnessing children being called "retards" for not being the smartest, people with any sort of disability being called "retarded" out of ignorance and simple spite.

When the movie "Napoleon Dynamite" came out, one of the first products I saw was a little toy marketed to kids that could be clipped to a keychain that would say his catchphrases, including "you guys are retarded." I just had a mental image of children at an elementary school with one of those playing that line towards students with Down Syndrome, Austism, or even cerebral palsy.

Imagine it had been reversed. If they had been saying "never go full nigger" to Robert Downey, Jr.'s character would we be having this conversation? Then add in further racial slurs that the character felt he "actually was" and had to remind himself to "restart" out of. Would there be pages of people saying the NAACP would be overreacting if they protested?

The term "retard" might not be directly aimed to hurt people with disabilities, but even when said in jest people know who it's referring to.

I will not reply to anyone in this thread. I have no interest in debating the topic.

The following is from Patricia E. Bauer's blog at http://www.patriciaebauer.com/2008/08/08/just-the-facts-tropic-thunder/

Just the facts … about ‘Tropic Thunder’
August 8th, 2008
Here’s some data about the film, gleaned from an advance screening of “Tropic Thunder” arranged for me this afternoon by DreamWorks/Paramount.

This post attempts to assemble information that may help readers and advocates frame their own opinions about questions that have been raised about the language used in the film and its marketing, and the portrayal of the character of Simple Jack.

– The Background –

“Tropic Thunder” is a big-budget, R-rated summer comedy made by DreamWorks/Paramount and directed and co-written by Ben Stiller, who also stars. The movie plot centers around a group of pampered actors who are lost in the jungle while making a war movie. Stiller’s character, Tugg Speedman, is presented as a fading action hero who earlier failed in his bid for Oscar glory while portraying Simple Jack, a character with an intellectual disability. Speedman’s portrayal of Simple Jack is featured as a movie within the movie.

A national coalition of disability advocacy groups has objected to the frequent use of the word “retard” in “Tropic Thunder” and its promotional materials. Early promotion of the film described Simple Jack as a “retard” and an elaborate DreamWorks marketing website that was taken down this week in response to complaints carried the tagline “Once upon a time … There was a retard.”

One scene that has been much discussed on the internet is the one in which Robert Downey Jr.’s character advises Stiller’s character to “Never go full retard.”

The term “retard” has been characterized by disability rights advocates as hate speech that heaps insult and possible harm on a group that has a long history of being stigmatized and vulnerable. They compare it with racial, ethnic and sexual epithets and stereotypes that have historically been used by majority groups to target and humiliate minority groups.

Studio executives have said the film is a comic satire intended to josh actors and the entertainment industry, not people with disabilities. They say the film plays broadly for laughs, offers equal offense to all groups, and is intended only as entertainment without a deeper subtext.

Stiller’s performance as Simple Jack is visible in the film from beginning to end, and provides a critical plot point needed to advance the film to its conclusion. The plot involving Simple Jack, and Stiller’s portrayal of the character, occupy close to 30 minutes of screen time. In character, Stiller speaks in a stilted, stuttering, adenoidal fashion, and wears overalls, bad false teeth and a classic institutional bowl haircut.

The film premieres Monday and is scheduled for nationwide release on Wednesday. As of this writing, promised screenings of the film for disability rights advocates have been postponed until Monday, the day the film premieres.

– The Tally (all approximate) —

Number of repetitions of the word “retard” or its variations: At least 16 in the “full retard” scene alone, not counting the uses of words like “idiot,” “moron,” “moronical,” “imbecile,” “stupid,” “dumb” and “the dumbest M*****F***** that ever lived.” All are used to describe the character of Simple Jack, who is described in an introductory segment as a “mentally impaired farm hand who can talk to animals.”

Number of repetitions of the word “nigger”: Once, said by a black character criticizing a character pretending to be black.

Number of uses of other racial/ethnic/sexual epithets: None observed.

Also observed:

Mocking references to gay people and fat people;
One character portrayed as a white man who has darkened his skin to play a black man. A black character criticizes him several times for impersonating a black man.
Extensive use of vulgar humor and profanity. (For example, number of variations of the word “F***”: Far too many to count accurately. Fart jokes are prominently featured.)
Many jokes about the shallowness, self-involvement and ignorance of actors and Hollywood executives in general.
– The Scenes –

In a filmed “television report” on Speedman’s portrayal of Simple Jack, Stiller stutters in a stereotypical fashion through lines like “I’ve got a G-G-G-G-G-good brain” and “You M-m-m-m-m make me happy.” The television interviewer (Access Hollywood’s Maria Menounos) responds in a mocking tone, saying, “Can Speedman M-m-m-m-make audiences happy?”

–

In a conversation with his agent, played by Mathew McConaughey, Stiller’s Speedman talks about his plans to adopt a child. “At least you get to choose yours,” says the agent, looking sadly at a photograph of himself with a slack-faced teenaged boy who appears to have an intellectual disability. “I’m stuck with mine.” (The teenaged boy turns up with his father on an airplane later in the movie, staring vacantly out the window.)

–

[Clapper]

The “full retard” scene between Stiller’s Speedman and Robert Downey Jr.’s Kirk Lazarus is more extensive than the clip distributed on the internet. Among the lines not included in the Internet version:

Stiller: You know, it was an intense experience, you know? I just did the work. I watched a lot of retarded people, spent time with them,observed them, watched all the retarded stuff they did …..

… In a weird way, I had to free myself up to believe that it was okay to be stupid or dumb.

(Exchange with Downey Jr.) To be a moron. to be moronical. To be a moron. To be an imbecile. To be the dumbest M**** F***** that ever lived … Stupid ass Jack.

Stiller: By the end of it I was like, wait a minute. I’ve flushed so much out … how am I going to jump start it up again?

Downey: Yeah, you was farting in the bathtub, laughing your ass off …

–

In a motorized poster in his agent’s office, Simple Jack is seen hitting butterflies with a sledgehammer.

–

Stiller is made to re-enact Simple Jack to entertain his captors, and dons a coconut wig, improvised overalls and borrowed dentures to act the part. When he doesn’t perform the way they like, they hit him and say “more stupid.”

–

Stiller (at bedside of dying mother): Good night mama. Now you can have ice cream in heaven. I see you tonight when I go to bed in my head movies. But this head movie makes my eyes rain. (Copious weeping)


http://www.r-word.org/

[New York'rr]

It was pretty funny to see the entertainment reporters on CNN Headline news gasping in horror because they were so shocked....SHOCKED!! at the use of the word "retard". They said, there is a new word, the "R" word, which is just as offensive as the "N" word!!!

Retarded people and people with Down syndrome and cerebral palsy, they don't get offended. Ever notice that? They really just don't take offense. Maybe if you give the impression that you are trying to treat them like babies by doing stuff for them which they are capable of doing themselves. But otherwise, a more well-adjusted group you will not find anywhere.

Names don't bother them. If being called names was the worst thing they had to deal with in their lives, that would be an improvement.

When was the last truly funny Ben Stiller movie anyway? Something about Mary?

[Spike]

I had no desire to watch this movie until I read this retarded rant. Now I have to go see it.

[Mighty Dyckerson]

Would it be ok for me to wear a tee shirt that read "Never go full nigger"?


Probably not in Harlem.

[Mighty Dyckerson]

Retarded people and people with Down syndrome and cerebral palsy, they don't get offended. Ever notice that?

Of course they don't! They're too friggin' retarded to understand!

[theultimatetruth]

I will not reply to anyone in this thread. I have no interest in debating the topic.

Who cares?

Friggin' retard.

[Kace]

The controversy's rather retarded.

[Pro]

As the father of an autistic child, I can attest that my son pays no attention to "labeling". To him, he's just....him. But lack of self-awareness is one of the many things that can be part of the autistic spectrum.

But me, personally, I hate the use of that term. I find it just as offensive as the "N" word. I really have to wonder about people who would use deragatory terms about people's intellectual disablilities. Or use such terms to insult others.

[Basically A Nice Guy]

The concern is about how movies like this break taboos and seem to allow others in society to use the derogatory word freely and deride those different than themselves. It's about how wrong it is to laugh at people with mental disabilities and call them stupid. I can tell you one thing, they're not stupid.

It's interesting to see which posters aren't mature enough to take these concerns seriously.

It's called smoking out the a$$holes. Thanks for posting this. Now we know for sure.

[Kace]

*******s have the ability to put up with sh*t until it's time to let it go.

[Spike]

It's called smoking out the a$$holes.

I think you mean "empathy-challenged." Calling someone an ******* is offensive.

[Mr. Rugen]

It's only offensive when the disability is not their fault. Every mentally handicapped person I ever knew was such at no fault of their own. *******s, on the other hand...

[Spike]

It's only offensive when the disability is not their fault.

Exactly! That means if I call someone who isn't mentally challenged a retard because of actions he chooses, then it isn't offensive. For example, if someone who isn't mentally challenged were to post a rambling, whining rant about a movie, it would not be offensive to characterize that rant as retarded, since the person who wrote it chose to make it that way.

[Head Janitor]

Haven't seen the movie, probably won't until it makes the tv circuit. But from what I've seen of the movie from trailers and interviews, it is a send up of the movie industry. It puts a mirror to the shallow face of Hollywood. So by having these characters use 'retarded' it may be showing that these characters, and in a way, Hollywood, isn't something to emulate.

But once again, I haven't seen the movie, so I can't really judge it.

[Pro]

Exactly! That means if I call someone who isn't mentally challenged a retard because of actions he chooses, then it isn't offensive.

No? Aren't you using that word to compare that person to someone who is mentally challenged?

Would you call a white person the "N" word?

[ewink]

No? Aren't you using that word to compare that person to someone who is mentally challenged?

Would you call a white person the "N" word?
I would.

[elvez]

Everybody gets a turn at the insult plate.
Now it's retards.
Maybe retards are the new illegal immigrants..
When someone can truly be honest and say they have never laughed at a joke at the expense of another person or group of people, then maybe I might listen to you.
Till then, enjoy your feigned outrage.

[rootboyslim]

As the father of an autistic child, I can attest that my son pays no attention to "labeling". To him, he's just....him. But lack of self-awareness is one of the many things that can be part of the autistic spectrum.

But me, personally, I hate the use of that term. I find it just as offensive as the "N" word. I really have to wonder about people who would use deragatory terms about people's intellectual disablilities. Or use such terms to insult others.

People who use these type words do so becasue they are not affected by whatever it is they are making fun of. If these people would stop and think how the use of these words may affect others, maybe it would sstop. If it does not, then they are ignorant fools.

We have a neighbor whose son has downs and my kids love the kid. Yet I caught them calling their brother and/or sister retarded. I had to explain to them that was a derogatory term that would hurt the feelings of their neighbor friend. They don't use the term anymore once it was put in perspective.

[Mighty Dyckerson]

Maybe retards are the new illegal immigrants.

I hope not. I don't want any retards mowing my lawn. They'll probably mow right over my flower bed.

[HushHush]

I'm not commenting on the issue at hand ... agreeing or disagreeing.

But remember.

Words are only words. People are the ones who place meaning behind them. A word alone can not hurt you. But when placed with the meaning of the individual speaking the word ... that's where the harm comes in.

If I told my son to stop acting retarded ... it would simply mean for him to stop and think for a minute about what he was doing. If I said the same thing to an individual with down syndrome .. it could take on a totally bigoted meaning ... or it could again be as simple as a reminder to stop and think.

Was the movie right in using the term? I don't know .. I have not seen the movie. But what I do know is the movie is a satire comedy ... and isn't the point of that genre to take an issue and skew it so outrageously out of context that it borders on offensive? If the intent of the film is to recognize the stereotype and make fun of it ... couldn't you say they are drawing awareness of the issue and are champions for ending the bigoted use of the word?

[Basically A Nice Guy]

We have a neighbor whose son has downs and my kids love the kid. Yet I caught them calling their brother and/or sister retarded.

And what will happen when kids start wearing "don't go full retard" t-shirts? Don't you think that type of behavior will become more acceptable and even more pervasive?

You did the responsible thing. Maybe you're in the majority as a parent, at least I hope so. But as we've seen above, you are in the minority on this board, and perhaps in society in general.

When mainstream entertainment embraces a derogatory term as humorous, it's going to be repeated over and over until it becomes acceptable.

Who does it harm? Not the idiots on this board. They're impervious to insult. But eventually it will hurt people with mental disabilities who will once again be viewed as incapable to hold a responsible job and fend for themselves in an increasingly callous society. It wasn't that long ago when people with mental disabilities were institutionalized because it was believed that they could not learn basic life skills. We know that's not true. But it didn't come about by accident. It took a lot of determined people to speak out. It took a lot of determined people to swing, even just a little bit, the dead wrong but pervasive perception that mental disabilities meant worthless person. How many women abort babies after discovering the fetus has an extra chromasome and will have Down Syndrome? How many more of those women will have their decisions informed by an ill informed society which mocks and ridicules anyone who is different?

[Basically A Nice Guy]

But what I do know is the movie is a satire comedy ...

It seems that you're setting up a straw man here, Hush. You're creating an argument that you can easily knock down.

But you're missing the issue. The issue is the acceptance and repetition of an obviously derogatory word.

Whether it's said with unintentional harm isn't relevant.

You have to replace retarded with nigger to fully understand it's impact.

Do you want your children calling each other niggers, and laughing? I'm pretty sure you don't. It really is no different.

Defending the repeated use of the word retard as the punchline of a joke because it's only a word misses the point entirely. I hope it's out of ignorance and not intentional.

If that alone were the reason for distress, it would be enough. But in the movie, the actor has played a character with a mental disability in another movie. That character is compared to an idiot, an imbecile, a clueless dumb**** and a moron. His disability is mocked as funny behavior.

Overall, it's a very funny movie. But it definitely has troubling scenes which were unnecessary and hurtful, whether it was intentional or not.

[Spike]

You have to replace retarded with nigger to fully understand it's impact.

Bad analogy. Nigger has only one meaning. Retard and retarded have multiple meanings. White people can't really be niggers. But anybody can be a retard.

This whole argument is really gay.

[Kace]

No, there's no happiness going on in this argument at all.

[Spike]

No, there's no happiness going on in this argument at all.

Well that certainly is a *****.

[Mr. Pratfall]

I have seen the future of the comedy film. And it is the "R" word.

[Mighty Dyckerson]

Nigger has only one meaning. Retard and retarded have multiple meanings. White people can't really be niggers. But anybody can be a retard.

http://www.abovethelaw.com/images/entries/Michael%20Richards%202%20Kramer%20n%20word%20nigge r%20Above%20the%20Law.JPG


Throw his ass out! He's a n*****!!

[Cobra Commander]

Probably not in Harlem.

Yeah, probably not.

http://cache01-videos02.myspacecdn.com/55/thumb1_ad925463c3223e49847f68e75ff6a08a.jpg

[Tippster]

I hope not. I don't want any retards mowing my lawn. They'll probably mow right over my flower bed.
I laughed. :D

[Pro]

If I told my son to stop acting retarded ... it would simply mean for him to stop and think for a minute about what he was doing.

No, it means for him to stop acting like a retarded person, or as if he, himself, is retarded.

You're using a slur. You may not realize it, but you are.

[Pro]

Bad analogy. Nigger has only one meaning. Retard and retarded have multiple meanings. White people can't really be niggers. But anybody can be a retard.

I don't accept that. Not at all.

You can compare anyone to a retarded or mentally disabled person, if you have no problems using sterotypical slurs.

[HushHush]

Well .. here's an addition to the issue. I've even read it used here by some claiming to be offended by the word "retarded".

What about the phrase "You're on the short bus," or any of it's other variations.

[Mighty Dyckerson]

What about the phrase "You're on the short bus," or any of it's other variations.

Depends on if you're driving it or riding it.

[Spike]

You can compare anyone to a retarded or mentally disabled person, if you have no problems using sterotypical slurs.

What stereotype?

So far on this thread we have people claiming to be offended who have Down Syndrome kids and autistic kids. The two situations are so different that you can't say that a stereotype applies. When I was in school, educators still used the word retarded to refer to kids who were slow learners. The retarded class didn't have any Down Syndrome or autistic kids in it. They were all just kids with learning disabilities. Kids with autism or kids with Down Syndrome (which were called Mongoloids back then) were sent away to special schools.

Retarded in normal lay conversation just means stupid. It doesn't call up any particular stereotype, because it doesn't apply to any particular group. Saying that someone is retarded isn't comparing him with someone who is autistic or has Down Syndrome. It just means he's stupid or behaving stupidly.

[Pro]

So far on this thread we have people claiming to be offended who have Down Syndrome kids and autistic kids. The two situations are so different that you can't say that a stereotype applies.

Thery're both developmentally disabled. And as a parent of an autistic child, yes, I can say that. And do.

Retarded in normal lay conversation just means stupid. It doesn't call up any particular stereotype, because it doesn't apply to any particular group. Saying that someone is retarded isn't comparing him with someone who is autistic or has Down Syndrome. It just means he's stupid or behaving stupidly.

Just because common useage has morphed a slur into the mainstream does not make it right. What's next, common acceptance of the word "nigger" to refer to someone who doesn't uphold to social (white) norms? And yes, indeed, calling someone retarded does, in fact, compares that person to a developmentally disabled person.

[Spike]

Thery're both developmentally disabled. And as a parent of an autistic child, yes, I can say that. And do.

So you're saying that your kid is the same as a kid with Down Syndrome? It sounds like you're the one doing the stereotyping.

[Kace]

What if you're offended at people being offended?

[Marty McFly]

As the father of an autistic child, I can attest that my son pays no attention to "labeling". To him, he's just....him. But lack of self-awareness is one of the many things that can be part of the autistic spectrum.

But me, personally, I hate the use of that term. I find it just as offensive as the "N" word. I really have to wonder about people who would use deragatory terms about people's intellectual disablilities. Or use such terms to insult others.

But calling people '*******' is perfectly ok...

[Pro]

So you're saying that your kid is the same as a kid with Down Syndrome? It sounds like you're the one doing the stereotyping.

Not the same, but there are similarities. Both are developmental disabilities.

[FD2BLK]

But calling people '*******' is perfectly ok...

Would you have to be an actual ******* to be offended by the term *******?

[Spike]

Not the same, but there are similarities. Both are developmental disabilities.

Okay, let's get down to the basic issue:

Is your son a retard? Do you consider him a retard?

[Pro]

He is retarded, in the broadest sense of the term. The word you used is a slur, and I take offense at that. You should be ashamed.

[Spike]

He is retarded, in the broadest sense of the term.

In the broadest sense of the term, so is Ben Stiller.

Do you think of your son as a retard?

[Pro]

In the broadest sense of the term, so is Ben Stiller.

Has he been diagnosed with a developmental disability?

Do you think of your son as a retard?

Do African Americans think of their children as "niggers"?

[Basically A Nice Guy]

Is your son a retard? Do you consider him a retard?

When someone smokes out the a$$holes, Spike always seems to go to the front of the line.

[Spike]

Do African Americans think of their children as "niggers"?

I'm gonna take that as a "no." I don't think of your son as a retard either.

On the other hand, you say that if I call Dyckerson a retard, I am comparing him to your son. If you think I'm comparing him to your son, you must think your son is a retard. Otherwise there's no way I could be comparing Dyckerson to your son.

You are contradicting yourself. Either you don't really think I'm comparing Dyckerson to your son, or you do think your son is a retard.

So we get back to the question I asked. If you don't think of your son as a retard, then there's no comparison with your son, and you have no reason to be offended.

[Pro]

On the other hand, you say that if I call Dyckerson a retard, I am comparing him to your son. If you think I'm comparing him to your son, you must think your son is a retard.

Let's look at it this way. I am Caucasian, but for the sake of dicussion, say I'm black. And say you called another person - be they black or white - a "nigger". Now I would never consider myself or member of my family a "nigger" (even if I was black). But I would still be offended by the mere use of the word.

The use of the word - in all context - is offensive.

BTW, I may have offended some black people by using the "N" word in my analogies. For that, I apologize.

[Mighty Dyckerson]

On the other hand, you say that if I call Dyckerson a retard, I am comparing him to your son.

Hey, who you callin' retard, nigga??!

:mad:

[Spike]

The use of the word - in all context - is offensive.


That's because nigger always carries a racial meaning. Retard has different meanings. When I call Dyckerson a retard, I'm not talking about autistic people or those with Down Syndrome.

[Pro]

That's because nigger always carries a racial meaning. Retard has different meanings. When I call Dyckerson a retard, I'm not talking about autistic people or those with Down Syndrome.

That's like someone saying that "nigger" doesn't always mean African Americans.

And again, I apologize for using that horrid word.

[Mighty Dyckerson]

When I call Dyckerson a retard, I'm not talking about autistic people or those with Down Syndrome.

Hey!! I'm right here, for chrissakes!!

:frustrated:

[Spike]

'Thunder' rumbles past 'Dark Knight' with $26M

By DAVID GERMAIN, AP Movie Writer
Sun Aug 17, 2:05 PM ET

LOS ANGELES - It took four of Hollywood's biggest stars to take down Batman. The DreamWorks-Paramount comedy "Tropic Thunder" — with Ben Stiller, Robert Downey Jr., Jack Black and Tom Cruise — debuted at No. 1 with $26 million, bumping "The Dark Knight" to second place after four weekends on top, according to studio estimates Sunday.

[MyracleMan]

People cant take a joke, and look at a word in the context it's being used in?

Gawd... what a bunch of retards.

Edit to add:
Seriously, people... they're just words!

Retard.

Nigger.

F@#k.

S$%t.

They have no power on their own.

The only power they have is the power we give them.

Stop calling them offensive, stop being offended by them, and they will go away.

[jrat33]

It reminds me of that Saturday Night Live skit with Shannon Daugherty when they were making fun of the Real World

"He told me to take out the trash! In this day and age, he told me to take out the trash! Well, what if I were to replace the word trash with White People. Take out the White People! What would they say if I said THAT?"

[commercial hack]

That's like someone saying that "nigger" doesn't always mean African Americans.


White people come from Africa as well.
Black people come from other places besides Africa.

[theultimatetruth]

White people come from Africa as well.
Black people come from other places besides Africa.

To Pro: you've just been pwned!

From the urban dictionary: pwned = To be made a fool of; To make a fool of; To confound or prove wrong; embarrasing someone: Being embarrased.

There ya go.....the more you know!

[Sigonfile]

I liked the original version with Marlin Brando and Martin Sheen. Or is this the new movie with Tom Cruise about a NASCAR race in the Amazon?

[Pro]

To Pro: you've just been pwned!

I have no idea what the hell that means. Nor do I care.

[Tippster]

It's supposed to be offensive, you damn retard. It's not a term of endearment; neither are idiot, *****, jerk, etc.

[Pro]

I have a low opinions of people who use terms like that.

[Kace]

Maybe we should substitute the word, "absurd," for anything that can be viewed as offensive by enough people. ;)

[Jane Craig]

Why, Kace, that concept is so commonsensical that it's just, well, absurd! :cool:

[22]

The problem is (and remember, this is coming from a really old guy) is that we can't keep up with what is a slur and what isn't. I really need a list. It used to be perfectly accepatable to say "Jap" or "Kraut". Now Jap means something entirely different. I remember when Afro-American became Black and then became African American. Queer was okay, then it was bad, now apparently it's okay again. Gay meant something completly different than its politically correct meaning now. Is commie okay? For a time in the '50s that was the worst thing you could call someone. How 'bout Mick? Is Dago okay now? For the longest time I thought Chinaman was okay. I learned years ago, it isn't. Is redneck okay? People on this board get offended by that word. Darkie was the "genteel" word. Now it's racist. How 'bout cracker? I have no idea on that one. Polack? Now is that bad? We used to have Polack jokes. Now they are Polish jokes. So now those jokes are okay?

Please, someone... give me a list and please keep it updated. I really just can't keep up.

[News Is Broken]

How horrible, to make fun of retarded and handicapped people! No one's ever dared to to that before!

Oh wait...
http://handicrappers.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/him2082.gif

Nevermind.

[Pro]

How horrible, to make fun of retarded and handicapped people!

Yes it is.

[Scott Lincoln]

When someone can truly be honest and say they have never laughed at a joke at the expense of another person or group of people, then maybe I might listen to you.
Till then, enjoy your feigned outrage.

Then what do you consider humor? Isn't most humor making fun of people or their actions?

There is a different between it being "all in good fun" and actually out to hurt someone. Heck, I was teased to no end in elementary and even high school. I wish bullying was taken more seriously and kids were taught to respect one another better... but sometimes I think people need to grow a thicker coat of skin. Some of this offensive stuff is what you make of it... take control of your life and chose to not be offended by people that you consider to be ignorant or hateful.

[Pro]

Then what do you consider humor? Isn't most humor making fun of people or their actions?

There is a different between it being "all in good fun" and actually out to hurt someone. Heck, I was teased to no end in elementary and even high school. I wish bullying was taken more seriously and kids were taught to respect one another better... but sometimes I think people need to grow a thicker coat of skin. Some of this offensive stuff is what you make of it... take control of your life and chose to not be offended by people that you consider to be ignorant or hateful.

There is a huge difference in making supposed jokes about people because of things they have no contol over - like color of skin or disabilities - than kidding about things they DO have contol over.

[News Is Broken]

Yes it is.

Exactly. But personally I think everyone needs to grow some thicker skin over this crap. I've got a nephew with Down Syndrome whom I love dearly but that doesn't mean I'm going to make a big stink over a (in my opinion, STUPID) movie. All the outrage over this movie is just driving more people to see for themselves, thereby lining the offending screenwriters pockets. Way to go, that'll show THEM! :rolleyes:

Just let the thing die. It's a STUPID movie that I have no desire to go see, not because it's offensive, but just because it's DUMB. I ain't paying $7 a head plus popcorn, candy, soda, gas, etc to see something DUMB.

[Another side]

There is a huge difference in making supposed jokes about people because of things they have no contol over - like color of skin or disabilities - than kidding about things they DO have contol over.

There are a lot of successful movies and popular TV sit-coms that would indicate otherwise. Racial humor has been a staple of the American entertainment scene for many, many years -- all based on the tone of a person's skin over which they have no control.

And Wops and Pollacks and Jews have been taking it on their chins ever since Archie Bunker strolled into our living rooms on Saturday nights in the 70s, and who here hasn't heard his or her share of fish-eating Catholic jokes, good-natured ridicule of Bible Belt Christians and their born-again Southern counterparts? Even the Pope has drawn his share of late-night talk-show one-liners, with nary an objection from his followers -- let alone the Pope or the Vatican, itself -- and let's face it -- Catholic priests are STILL the butt of more sex-with-underage-boys jokes than any other human species before or since.

And if you believe (as I do) that homosexuality is a product of birth rather than choice ... should there also be no gay jokes? If so, then we probably should shut down Medialine right now in the interest of a more national civil discourse. Alcoholism is a "disease" -- Hell ... you can't "help" it when you're overcome by "disease" so ... no jokes about drunks? I can't "help" it that I'm bald -- it's genetic -- so ... no more bald jokes?

Is it still OK -- or was it ever -- to joke about people who stutter ... who are blind or deaf ...who might have glandular or hormonal problems that lead to weight problems ... the uncoordinated young boy who always gets picked last on the playground, or the gangly, flat-chested young girl who can't get a date for her junior-senior prom? Not her fault; she can't "help" it.

I would venture to guess that most of us have spent most of our lives being exposed to humor based on things about people those people couldn't "help," and this much I know for sure: our time is coming. We all, sooner or later, become the topic of American humor ... and frequently, if not mostly, because of something we couldn't "help."

As far as the movie and the original topic ... I may see it when it comes out on DVD -- I may not, who knows ? -- and if I do I'll probably have to watch it alone in my home-office and close the door ... otherwise I wouldn't be able to hear it because of the yelling and screaming by my severely autistic grandson.

And the use of the word "retard" won't be a factor. People trying to be "funny" don't offend me; people trying to be "hurtful" do.

[Pro]

Exactly. But personally I think everyone needs to grow some thicker skin over this crap. I've got a nephew with Down Syndrome whom I love dearly but that doesn't mean I'm going to make a big stink over a (in my opinion, STUPID) movie. All the outrage over this movie is just driving more people to see for themselves, thereby lining the offending screenwriters pockets. Way to go, that'll show THEM! :rolleyes:

Just let the thing die. It's a STUPID movie that I have no desire to go see, not because it's offensive, but just because it's DUMB. I ain't paying $7 a head plus popcorn, candy, soda, gas, etc to see something DUMB.

You miss the point. It isn't about the movie. It's about pointing out everytime this word is said in public that it should be considered as offensive as the "N" word. This time it's a movie. Next time, it'll be something else.

[Pro]

There are a lot of successful movies and popular TV sit-coms that would indicate otherwise. Racial humor has been a staple of the American entertainment scene for many, many years -- all based on the tone of a person's skin over which they have no control.

Still doesn't make it right. It took a trip to Africa in the early 80's to make Richard Pryor see for himself how wrong he was for using the "N" word.

And Wops and Pollacks and Jews have been taking it on their chins ever since Archie Bunker strolled into our living rooms on Saturday nights in the 70s.

But we were supposed to be laughing at HIM, not the people he was slurring.
We were supposed to be laughing at the character's stupidity.

who here hasn't heard his or her share of fish-eating Catholic jokes, good-natured ridicule of Bible Belt Christians and their born-again Southern counterparts? Even the Pope has drawn his share of late-night talk-show one-liners, with nary an objection from his followers -- let alone the Pope or the Vatican, itself -- and let's face it -- Catholic priests are STILL the butt of more sex-with-underage-boys jokes than any other human species before or since.

All of those are choices.

Is it still OK -- or was it ever -- to joke about people who stutter ... who are blind or deaf ...who might have glandular or hormonal problems that lead to weight problems ... the uncoordinated young boy who always gets picked last on the playground, or the gangly, flat-chested young girl who can't get a date for her junior-senior prom? Not her fault; she can't "help" it.

It never was OK with me.

And if you believe (as I do) that homosexuality is a product of birth rather than choice ... should there also be no gay jokes?

If it's about someone's personality - which they can choose - fine. For example "Ross The Intern" on the Tonight Show chose a "flaming" personna. It's part of his scthick. If it is ONLY because of their sexual preference, then, no, it's not OK with me.

Alcoholism is a "disease" -- Hell ... you can't "help" it when you're overcome by "disease" so ... no jokes about drunks? I can't "help" it that I'm bald -- it's genetic -- so ... no more bald jokes?.

I ahbor joking about alcoholism or any destructive addiction.

As far as the movie and the original topic ... I may see it when it comes out on DVD -- I may not, who knows ? -- and if I do I'll probably have to watch it alone in my home-office and close the door ... otherwise I wouldn't be able to hear it because of the yelling and screaming by my severely autistic grandson.

I don't care if you - or anyone else - sees it or not. That's not the point. The point is that word is being protrayed as acceptable, when it shouldn't be. This time it's a movie. Next time, it'll be something else.

[Zeke]

I had no desire to watch this movie until I read this retarded rant. Now I have to go see it.
Seconded. Though the trailer (the R rated trailer) was what got me interested originally.

[Rambunctious]

But we were supposed to be laughing at HIM, not the people he was slurring.
We were supposed to be laughing at the character's stupidity.

I saw the movie and I found myself laughing at how he portrayed a mentally challenged person. It was stupid. I laughed at how they thought Hollywood reacted to his portrayal of a mentally challenged person. It was stupid. I was always laughing at the characters stupidity and not anyone actually mentally challenged. Now that I have cleared that up... you can go ahead and approve of this movie.

[Basically A Nice Guy]

You miss the point. It isn't about the movie. It's about pointing out everytime this word is said in public that it should be considered as offensive as the "N" word. This time it's a movie. Next time, it'll be something else.

Exactly the point.

When mainstream culture makes it okay to laugh at someone's disability by mocking them, then society feels more comfortable with accepting the stereotype.

I've seen this described as satire. It isn't satire any more than the television and radio show "Amos and Andy" were satirizing blacks. It was intentionally exaggerating mannerisms in order to make them the object of ridicule. The audience was having a laugh at their expense. The "Amos and Andy" show was reinforcing negative stereotypes.

That's why it was patently objectionable and today is unairable. That's because the NAACP sued alleging the programs "strengthened the conclusion among uninformed and prejudiced people that Negroes are inferior, lazy, dumb, and dishonest."

The exact same thing can be said of Tropic Thunder and kids with mental disabilities.

There are plans to market t-shirts emblazoned with the phrase "never go full retardl". There also are plans to use the "Simple Jack" character, a gross exaggeration of a mentally challenged boy, as a marketing tool.

What this does is makes it socially acceptable to laugh at someone different first, rather than understand the differences.

[Kace]

But what does Zero think? :whistle:

[Paper Trail]

Roanoke Times (http://www.roanoke.com/editorials/commentary/wb/173614)

by John Franklin Stephens


Stephens is a Special Olympics Virginia athlete and a Global Messenger from Fairfax. Contact him at visteph@aol.com


A lot of people are talking about the movie "Tropic Thunder" that opened in theaters last week. One of the reasons that it is being talked about is that the characters use the term "retard" over and over. They use it the same way that kids do all the time, to jokingly insult one another.

The people who made the movie, DreamWorks and Paramount, and many of the critics who have reviewed it say that the term is being used by characters who are dumb and shallow themselves. You see, we are supposed to get the joke that it is only the dumb and shallow people who use a term that means dumb and shallow. My dad tells me that this is called "irony."

So, what's the big deal? Let me try to explain. I am a 26-year-old man with Down syndrome. I am very lucky. Even though I was born with this intellectual disability, I do pretty well and have a good life. I live and work in the community. I count as friends the people I went to school with and the people I meet in my job. Every day I get closer to living a life like yours.

I am a Global Messenger for Special Olympics and make speeches to people all over the country. I once spoke to more than 10,000 people at the Richmond Coliseum. I realize that I am a voice for other people with intellectual disabilities who cannot easily speak for themselves. I thank God that he gave me this chance to be someone's voice.

The hardest thing about having an intellectual disability is the loneliness. We process information slower than everyone else. So even normal conversation is a constant battle for us not to lose touch with what the rest of you are saying. Most of the time the words and thoughts just go too fast for us to keep up, and when we finally say something it seems out of place.

We are aware when all the rest of you stop and just look at us. We are aware when you look at us and just say, "unh huh," and then move on, talking to each other. You mean no harm, but you have no idea how alone we feel even when we are with you. That is why I love being a Global Messenger. I work for days telling my dad what I want to talk about and he tries to write it down for me. Then we do it over and over until we have something that says what I mean. We wrote this letter the same way.

So, what's wrong with "retard"? I can only tell you what it means to me and people like me when we hear it. It means that the rest of you are excluding us from your group. We are something that is not like you and something that none of you would ever want to be. We are something outside the "in" group. We are someone that is not your kind. I want you to know that it hurts to be left out here -- alone. Nothing scares me as much as feeling all alone in a world that moves so much faster than I do.

You don't mean to make me feel that way. In fact, like I say in some of my speeches, "I have always depended on the kindness of strangers," and it works out OK most of the time. Still, it hurts and scares me when I am the only person with intellectual disabilities on the bus and young people start making "retard" jokes or references. Please put yourself on that bus and fill the bus with people who are different from you. Imagine that they start making jokes using a term that describes you. It hurts and it is scary.

Last, I get the joke -- the irony -- that only dumb and shallow people are using a term that means dumb and shallow. The problem is, it is only funny if you think a "retard" is someone dumb and shallow. I am not those things, but every time the term is used it tells young people that it is OK to think of me that way and to keep me on the outside.

That is why using "retard" is a big deal to people like me.

[Shot A Load]

So it's safe to say only white people and Republicans can be made fun of.
I swear the PC police won't be happy until every ounce of humor is sucked out of everyone's lives.

[Kace]

Which of course...is retarded. :rockon:

[Paper Trail]

Call this ‘Tropic Blunder’

Is film a joke, or humiliation?
By Lennard J. Davis (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-tropic-thunder_thinkaug17,0,1005407.story)


Who gets to say what's funny and what hurts—the jester or the object of the jest?

In the summer movie " Tropic Thunder," Ben Stiller plays an over-the-hill movie star who bombs with his portrayal of a cognitively disabled person named Simple Jack. The film is a spoof on Hollywood, including its penchant for five-hankie movies about developmentally impaired people.

But disability advocates aren't finding the film amusing. In it, Stiller is told by a fellow actor, played by Robert Downey Jr. in blackface, that it was OK to play a "retard," but Stiller went over the line in his acting: "Everybody knows you never do a full retard. . . . You went full retard, man. Never go full retard!"

The film company also had been promoting a Web site, www.simplejackmovie.com (hastily shut down last week), with the tagline "Once upon a time there was a retard." Disability groups, outraged by the movie and the Web site, are calling for a nationwide boycott of the film, which opened last week.

Sometimes satire's as subtle as a thunderstorm Dreamworks, the film company that produced the R-rated "Tropic Thunder" and is usually known for fuzzier, more kid-friendly films than this, is saying the film is just more of its usual good, clean fun. But is there a line that a film can cross? Humor in art is a double-edged sword.

In "Tropic Thunder," care was taken by the film company to shape the public reaction to Downey's portrayal of a white actor in blackface. It was obvious to them that you could make fun of a white man thinking he's black, but not make fun of being black. Clearly, though, the movie execs did not think using the word "retard" 17 times in the film was anything worse than the usual crude language and humor used in summer movies pitched to bored adolescents.

Why were the executives so cavalier with disability when they were more cautious about race? Disability has for too long been the minority group that wasn't. You might acknowledge there were ethnic and minority groups that had rights, but what could a person using a wheelchair have in common with a child who has Down syndrome or someone who is HIV-positive?

Not until the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 did people with disabilities begin to be seen as a group having rights on a par with those of other oppressed minorities.

But it's easier to pass laws about tolerance and respect than it is to change behavior patterns. Derogatory words die hard, as African-Americans, Jews, Latinos, Asians and other groups know only too well.

The words "retard" and "retarded" are commonly and openly used by many people who still don't realize that an entire community is deeply offended by any use of the R-word. Daily the word is used to throw a jab at a friend or family member. And if anyone takes offense, the usual rejoinder is: "It's just a joke."

So say the executives at Dreamworks, who note that the film is a wide-ranging spoof of Hollywood. They may think that having Stiller go "full retard" is funny because a non-disabled man is playing a disabled one, but in reality the audience is laughing at the idea of being a "retard." That word still gets a laugh.

Members of disability groups who have seen the film don't share in the joke. "I came out feeling like I had been assaulted," said David Tolleson, executive director of the National Down Syndrome Congress, according to The New York Times.

Did Dreamworks expect that the summer audiences would bring a critical eye to this film, or simply laugh at Stiller in a bowl-cut wig and buck teeth as the word "retard" is thrown around? Reaction on Facebook's page for the film indicates the latter, with entries such as "Just saw this movie. It's hilarious. Retards are funny. Lighten up!"

Things are only funny if everyone laughs. If one group laughs at the expense of another, we don't call that humor. We call that humiliation.

"Tropic Thunder" needs to be taken to task—not because people with disabilities don't have a sense of humor, but because they do. They have too much respect for humor to let it pass itself off as mere insult.

Lennard J. Davis is a professor of disability studies, English literature and medical education at the University of Illinois at Chicago.lendavis@uic.edu

[Pro]

So it's safe to say only white people and Republicans can be made fun of.
I swear the PC police won't be happy until every ounce of humor is sucked out of everyone's lives.

So that's how you define "humor"...my make jokes at someone's else's expense because of their birth condition?

Tell me, did you find Michael Richards' Improv rant hilarious?

[Spike]

Tell me, did you find Michael Richards' Improv rant hilarious?

It WAS hilarious. When is a self-destruction of that magnitude not funny?

[Kace]

When you're saying, "retard?"

Just picture that in your mind.

"Throw him out, he's a retard!!! Tard tard tard tard!!!"

[Pro]

It WAS hilarious. When is a self-destruction of that magnitude not funny?

I was referring to what Richards said, not how he torpeodoed his career.

[Kace]

What he said was what torpedoed his career, though.

[Pro]

What he said was what torpedoed his career, though.

Yes, but I was asking if what he said was in and of itself funny....not the ramifications of it.

[Jane Craig]

I just had a colleague ask me to call her cell for a meeting. She was unexpectedly called away -- to pick up her 12-year-old son, who was thrown out of a theater for buying a ticket to a G movie and sneaking in to see "Tropic Thunder."

[News Is Broken]

I just had a colleague ask me to call her cell for a meeting. She was unexpectedly called away -- to pick up her 12-year-old son, who was thrown out of a theater for buying a ticket to a G movie and sneaking in to see "Tropic Thunder."

Pssht. What a dweeb. All self respecting twelve year olds know how to work Bittorrent and thus don't have to resort to such shenaniganism.

Oh no... I've offended the dweebs! And the shenanigans! I shall submit my resignation forthwith.

[Shot A Load]

So that's how you define "humor"...my make jokes at someone's else's expense because of their birth condition?

Tell me, did you find Michael Richards' Improv rant hilarious?

Didn't see it. But while we're on the subject and I know you believe that the Contstitution is a living document, we should go ahead and make adjustments to the annoying free speech thing. Maybe it should have a clause in there that states "unless it offends someone" in which case nobody would have much to say.
I've been insulted for just about everything in my life and you know what? I could give two $hits about what anybody thinks or says about me. People need to lighten up and realize that sometimes things are what they are and it just isn't worth the time and effort to argue about what someone says. We have more important issues in life than worrying about crap like this.

[Basically A Nice Guy]

we should go ahead and make adjustments to the annoying free speech thing.

Nobody ever argued the producers of Tropic Thunder do not have the right to say retarded. The question at hand is whether responsible people should advance such hurtful and negative language and stereotypes.

Let me know when it sinks in, and we can work on you.

[Basically A Nice Guy]

Yes, but I was asking if what he said was in and of itself funny....not the ramifications of it.

He's avoiding the question. Because the answer is: nobody laughed then. Nobody's laughing now. It was rightly seen as a vile outburst of hurtful language.

[Pro]

There is no such thing as "freedom of speech without rebuke". Only freedom of speech without prosecution.

[Pro]

He's avoiding the question.

A lot of that is going on in this forum.

[Shot A Load]

Not avoiding the question and I find your assumption offensive. I was working.I see you have someone to join you at your side on the throne in your Utopian kingdom.
I never said there should be freedom from consequence but who gets to decide what's offensive and what's not? Blondes, French people are made fun of, do we need to stop that too?
Honestly Pro, you need to write a PC handbook so everybody can have a clear understanding of how you want others to speak without offending others. You can get Mr. Nice Guy to help.

[Pro]

Honestly Pro, you need to write a PC handbook so everybody can have a clear understanding of how you want others to speak without offending others. You can get Mr. Nice Guy to help.

Do you have a problem with people speaking up when they find something offensive? How else are people going to find out what is or is not offensive to others? If people didn't do that, we'd all still be using the "N" word like it was accepted practice.

[Shot A Load]

Absolutely nothing wrong with speaking up but we all know everyone can be offended by anything. Where will it end? Wouldn't it just be easier just to move on instead of having these lenthy discussions about a WORD.

[Pro]

Wouldn't it just be easier just to move on instead of having these lenthy discussions about a WORD.
Well, you seem to have "joined in".

And no, this must - IMO - be pointed out every time it happens. If you do not wish to partake in the discussion, fine. No one is forcing you to.

[Shot A Load]

I'm speaking discussions in general. I'm sure Medialine isn't the only place that people discuss these things.
Something I don't understand, you defend freedom of speech but then you say you don't have freedom from consequence. That's not freedom at all when there's a threat.
If people didn't take such offense (fake or not) to words, the words have no power.

[Shot A Load]

BTW, before someone accuses me of avoiding a question, I am stepping away from the computer.

[Pro]

Something I don't understand, you defend freedom of speech but then you say you don't have freedom from consequence. That's not freedom at all when there's a threat.

Freedom from government consequence. You can't be jailed for what you say or write. You CAN be rebuked by other private citizens, of course. And if it is malicious or untrue, you can be sued for damages. But not jailed.

[Basically A Nice Guy]

the words have no power.

Of course words have power. They can inspire, amuse or hurt. That's why they're used. They communicate certain specific ideas. And using derogatory words about entire groups of people, whether it be intentionally or thoughtlessly, callously or casually, the intent always is to paint them unfavorably by demeaning or degrading them.

If words had no power, you could stand up in your office and yell; "Niggers and queers are worse than Spics and Kikes!" and nothing would happen except a few shoulder shrugs.

I don't suggest you try.

You're only fooling yourself if you think just because you're not offended by the word retard that nobody else is entitled to take personal offense. Your ignorance is on display if you think nobody would or should ask you to think before you speak.

[Shot A Load]

"Of course words have power. They can inspire, amuse or hurt. That's why they're used. They communicate certain specific ideas. And using derogatory words about entire groups of people, whether it be intentionally or thoughtlessly, callously or casually, the intent always is to paint them unfavorably by demeaning or degrading them.

If words had no power, you could stand up in your office and yell; "Niggers and queers are worse than Spics and Kikes!" and nothing would happen except a few shoulder shrugs."

You made my point. Think about where the power is.

[Shot A Load]

Freedom from government consequence. You can't be jailed for what you say or write. You CAN be rebuked by other private citizens, of course. And if it is malicious or untrue, you can be sued for damages. But not jailed.

Were talking about offensive terms. How often do people get sued for using slurs?

[Paper Trail]

Activists charged with trespassing at Framingham showing of Tropic Thunder
By Staff reports (http://www.wickedlocal.com/dover/news/x1485140623/Activistscharged-with-trespassing-at-Framingham-showing-of-Tropic-Thunder)

Editor’s Note: The following was provided by Lewis M. Randa, director of the Life Experience School and the Peace Abbey in Sherborn.

Corty Woods, a politically seasoned, mentally challenged activist, along with two staff members of the Life Experience School in Sherborn, were charged with trespassing while engaging in civil disobedience at the opening of the DreamWorks’ film “Tropic Thunder” at the AMC Cinemas in Framingham on Aug. 14.

As movie theaters around the country featured the controversial film “Tropic Thunder,” disability rights groups nationwide gathered at ticket booths to urge movie goers to boycott the film that they feel insults those with intellectual challenges and trivializes and perpetuates the use of the word “retard.”

Corty Woods of Quincy; Lewis Randa, director of the Life Experience School; and son Mike, both of Sherborn, walked out of the film following the segment they deemed “beyond offensive.” They sat on the floor in the middle of the lobby to encourage ticket buyers to boycott the film. Corty’s sign read “TROPIC THUNDER IS INSULTING AND HURTFUL TO ME AND OTHERS.”

Before being charged with trespassing by the Framingham Police Department, Corty Woods spoke about what it feels like to be called a “retard.” In tears, he told the manager of the Theater and passersby “I won’t be quiet and let movies make fun of people — and people who make money making fun of being retarded should be ashamed of themselves.”

Cortland Woods, Lewis Randa and Mike Randa will be arraigned in Framingham District Court in the near future and plan to invite disability rights groups to join them in the courtroom as they go on record objecting to Hollywood’s abusive treatment of the disabled. The film, they claim, “trespassed” on accepted standards of decency and fair treatment of those in society that have fought so hard and for so long to win the respect of members of the community.

Both Woods and Lewis Randa were previously arrested on Valentine’s Day in 2000 on the steps of the Massachusetts State House protesting the name of the department that funds the Life Experience School: the Massachusetts Department of Mental Retardation. The Commonwealth has yet to enact a name change. Woods has championed this cause in Massachusetts for over 10 years.

For information, contact the Peace Abbey at 508-655-2143 or visit www.peaceabbey.org.

[Fiya Storm]

Ban the "R" word. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRUOL5Rm2XY)

[theultimatetruth]

Activists charged with trespassing at Framingham showing of Tropic Thunder

<snipped> “I won’t be quiet and let movies make fun of people — and people who make money making fun of being retarded should be ashamed of themselves.”[/url].[/I]

Throughout history, movies have never made fun of people, have they?

This whole thread is just retar......well, you know.

[Basically A Nice Guy]

This whole thread is .

This whole thread is an obvious plan to smoke out the a$$holes here on Medialine. Because only a worthless a$$hole, like yourself, would advocate using an offensive word like "retarded" for your own stupid amusement... regardless of the hurt it inflicts upon innocent children who have to grow up in a world where mental disabilities are considered humorous.

Rock on, dude. You're a phucking idiot.

Sleep well.

[Produce man]

The pussification of America continues...

[Diplomat]

The controversy over this is similar to every other "controversial" movie out there. For example, people tried to get Mel Gibson's Jesus movie banned or at least boycotted. It happened on a smaller scale with "Priest." People wanted to boycott Michael Moore's movies. And so on.

Yes, people can and should speak up if they find some aspect of a movie offensive, but getting too vocal with protests can backfire--it can bring more publicity to the movie. I remember doing stories on the controversy over "Priest." Some we talked to admitted going to see it to see what all the ruckus was about. I'm sure that will happen with Tropic Thunder, too.

Personally, I won't go see it--I thought the previews didn't look terribly smart. Or just plain dopey.

[Mighty Dyckerson]

The pussification of America continues...

You don't like it? MOVE.

[Spike]

You're a phucking idiot.

Now wait a minute.

Idiot used to be a clinical term, like retarded, to refer to people who are mentally challenged.

If it's not okay to use the word retarded, then how do you justify calling someone an idiot?

You've just done the EXACT same thing you're criticizing.

Hypocrite.

[Kace]

Once again, he's named Spike 'cause he's rather sharp. ;)

[Spike]

Once again, he's named Spike 'cause he's rather sharp. ;)

And now Kace is saying I'm sharp. That's sharp, as opposed to dull. Dull is sometimes used to describe someone who isn't very smart. So now by praising me, Kace is indirectly criticizing people of diminished mental capacity!

Oh the horror! Where will this insensitivity end?!?

[Spike]

Personally, I won't go see it--I thought the previews didn't look terribly smart. Or just plain dopey.

Dopey? Dopey? Dopey was the name of the learning disabled dwarf! By calling someone "dopey," you're insulting people of diminished capacity!

Jeez this PC thing is fun.

[Guideline Gus]

And the ******* hits just keep coming! They can't stop themselves.

[Pro]

Were talking about offensive terms. How often do people get sued for using slurs?

I broadened it to include all speech.

[Pro]

And now Kace is saying I'm sharp. That's sharp, as opposed to dull. Dull is sometimes used to describe someone who isn't very smart. So now by praising me, Kace is indirectly criticizing people of diminished mental capacity!

"Dull" means someone who is boring. That's not "diminished mental capacity".

[Spike]

"Dull" means someone who is boring.

That's one meaning. Another is "stupid."

[Another OMB]

I'm all for doing what we can not to offend people and make them feel bad. But come on--protesting the name of the Massachusetts Department of Mental Retardation? If it were the "Department For Retard Assistance", yeah, that would be worth protesting. But it's the agency that helps people who are mentally retarded. What's so bad about the current name? And what would they prefer it be called?

[Diplomat]

I'm all for doing what we can not to offend people and make them feel bad. But come on--protesting the name of the Massachusetts Department of Mental Retardation? If it were the "Department For Retard Assistance", yeah, that would be worth protesting. But it's the agency that helps people who are mentally retarded. What's so bad about the current name? And what would they prefer it be called?

In Tennessee, the home for the developmentally disabled (I forget the official title at the moment) was once called "The Tennessee Home for the Feeble-Minded." It is operated by the Department of Mental Health and Developmental Disabilities, formerly called Mental Health and Mental Retardation.

Of course, the state Commission for the Hearing-Impaired changed to "Deaf and Hard of Hearing" at the request of several groups that advocate on behalf of said people.

[Diplomat]

Dopey? Dopey? Dopey was the name of the learning disabled dwarf! By calling someone "dopey," you're insulting people of diminished capacity!

Jeez this PC thing is fun.

I guess you're Happy then. You haven't been Bashful about it, although a few people have been Grumpy through this thread. Perhaps others are Sleepy after reading all these posts. Personally, I'm a bit Sneezy today because of the air quality.

I think we can all agree that mental retardation/developmental disabilities and all must be diagnosed by a Doc.

:)

[Mighty Dyckerson]

But come on--protesting the name of the Massachusetts Department of Mental Retardation? If it were the "Department For Retard Assistance", yeah, that would be worth protesting.

Yes, those extra two syllables make all the difference.

:rolleyes:

[FD2BLK]

I guess you're Happy then. You haven't been Bashful about it, although a few people have been Grumpy through this thread. Perhaps others are Sleepy after reading all these posts. Personally, I'm a bit Sneezy today because of the air quality.

I think we can all agree that mental retardation/developmental disabilities and all must be diagnosed by a Doc.

:)

:thumbsup:

[Shot A Load]

I broadened it to include all speech.

You broadened it more to fit your argument. Nice. You should be a politician.

[Cobra Commander]

http://www.smokingtree.net/images/mary5.jpg

I work with retards.

[MyracleMan]

"Of course words have power. They can inspire, amuse or hurt. That's why they're used. They communicate certain specific ideas. And using derogatory words about entire groups of people, whether it be intentionally or thoughtlessly, callously or casually, the intent always is to paint them unfavorably by demeaning or degrading them.

If words had no power, you could stand up in your office and yell; "Niggers and queers are worse than Spics and Kikes!" and nothing would happen except a few shoulder shrugs."

You made my point. Think about where the power is.

SHL, they don't understand it's not the words themselves that have power, but the context in which they are used, and the intent of the user.

If people would simply stop being offended by words, the words would go away.

"Sticks and stones, luv..."

[s'news]

Freedom from government consequence. You can't be jailed for what you say or write. You CAN be rebuked by other private citizens, of course. And if it is malicious or untrue, you can be sued for damages. But not jailed.

You can be jailed if what you say or write is seen as a personal threat.

[Pro]

You can be jailed if what you say or write is seen as a personal threat.

Well....yes and no. If you say or write "I'm gonna kill President Bush", then yes. But if you say or write "Someone oughta kill President Bush", then no, that's not a crime.

[neodeity]

Rock on, dude. You're a phucking idiot.
For the record an "idiot" has an I.Q. below 20.
"Dull" means someone who is boring. That's not "diminished mental capacity".
"Dull Normal" has an I.Q. in between 80-90.

From Alice in Wonderland & perhaps apropos of nothing:
“When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less.”
"The question is' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.”
"The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be the master; that's all."

[s'news]

Well....yes and no. If you say or write "I'm gonna kill President Bush", then yes. But if you say or write "Someone oughta kill President Bush", then no, that's not a crime.

I wasn't going to complain, but...

What I said was that you can be jailed if what you say or write is seen as a personal threat. And you can.

[Pro]

I wasn't going to complain, but...

What I said was that you can be jailed if what you say or write is seen as a personal threat. And you can.

OK, I'll give you that. If you directly threaten bodily harm or to commit a felony, you can be arrested for that. Or at least detained.

[s'news]

And in some cases -- he offered in only the friendliest way -- you might beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride.

[Spike]

Yay!

'Thunder' reigns again with $16.1 million weekend

By DAVID GERMAIN, AP Movie Writer

LOS ANGELES - The action comedy "Tropic Thunder" weathered a rush of new movies to remain No. 1 for a second-straight weekend with $16.1 million in ticket sales, according to studio estimates Sunday.

The Paramount-DreamWorks release — starring Ben Stiller, Robert Downey Jr. and Jack Black as retards caught up in real battle while shooting a war movie — raised its 12-day total to $65.7 million.

link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080824/ap_en_mo/box_office;_ylt=AvoOum9prATrp8Qg3lzsGY2s0NUE)

[theultimatetruth]

This whole thread is an obvious plan to smoke out the a$$holes here on Medialine. Because only a worthless a$$hole, like yourself, would advocate using an offensive word like "retarded" for your own stupid amusement... regardless of the hurt it inflicts upon innocent children who have to grow up in a world where mental disabilities are considered humorous.

So "innocent children" are getting hurt by this movie!? ORLY?

YOU have indeed gone "Full Retard!"

I sleep well every night, loser.

[Pro]

As I said, I don't care if anyone sees this movie or not.

This time it was about the word being used for humor frequently in a movie. The next time, it'll be in an another context. Everytime it happens, it must, IMO, be pointed out.

[Basically A Nice Guy]

TO: NDSS and NDSC Affiliate Groups
FROM: Jon Colman, President, National Down Syndrome Society
David Tolleson, Executive Director, National Down Syndrome Congress
RE: Tropic Thunder

August 12, 2008

Dear Affiliate Leaders,

As noted previously, DreamWorks Studios has indicated they will not edit their film, “Tropic Thunder”. Therefore, a nationwide boycott has been announced by NDSS, NDSC, Special Olympics, The Arc of the United States, and many other disability rights groups.

Last night, at the film’s premiere, the first protest was held in Hollywood. Down Syndrome Association of Los Angeles Executive Director, Gail Williamson, was among the leaders of a group of over 200 self advocates, parents, representatives from organizations, including NDSC and NDSS, and actors with physical and intellectual disabilities. They stood outside the theater with signs stating, “Call me by name, not by my label.”

Last night’s protest garnered significant national media coverage.

What can your group do?

~Attached is the Coalition’s Statement of Support and Solidarity. NDSS and NDSC are asking that you sign on. We need as many signatures as possible. If your group is interested in signing on to, please send your name, group name, and contact information to Barbara Kornblau at Special Olympics, ASAP at bkornblau@specialolympics.org.

~Consider sending a note to your local public schools, warning principals to be on the lookout for offensive “Tropic Thunder” merchandise, which may disrupt the school setting. A letter drafted by the Connecticut Down Syndrome Congress is attached for your review.

~In Delaware, Georgia, Rhode Island and elsewhere, conference calls have been held to unify the efforts of local Down syndrome affiliates, ARC, and Special Olympics chapters. Together, you can take these steps for the nationwide opening of the film:

·Try to contact your local chapters of The Arc and/or Special Olympics to coordinate your efforts. “Many hands make light work.”
·Contact your local news media.
·Make sure to stay on public property (e.g. - a sidewalk), unless you’ve been given permission by the property owner to protest on their property.
·Review the “Media Action Kit” (see attached), provided by Special Olympics for tips, sample leaflets and talking points. You may want to use all, some, or none of it. The materials are attached to this email.

~Consider sharing this online petition with your members:
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/stopTropicThunder?e

As acting members of the coalition, NDSC and NDSS will be part of an ad this Friday in the New York Times – please see the attached ad.

We need your help, we need your actions, and we need your voice.

Jon Colman
President
National Down Syndrome Society
jcolman@ndss.org.

David Tolleson
Executive Director
National Down Syndrome Congress
david@ndsccenter.org

[Kace]

Would it be possible to protest the protestors?

[Diplomat]

If you don't like this movie, then do not go see it.

Personally, I think all the hype over the movie's alleged insensitivity has helped it at the box office.

I have no plans to see it because it looks silly to me. Spike was kind enough to remind me that my previous choice of "dopey" to describe the movie was horribly insensitive. The theater in my neighborhood which is showing "Tropic Thunder" didn't look that crowded and I didn't hear too many people in line asking for tickets to it last week when I was there to see "Vicky Cristina Barcelona," which does not feature the "r" word.

[Clever Login Name]

Yay!

'Thunder' reigns again with $16.1 million weekend

By DAVID GERMAIN, AP Movie Writer

LOS ANGELES - The action comedy "Tropic Thunder" weathered a rush of new movies to remain No. 1 for a second-straight weekend with $16.1 million in ticket sales, according to studio estimates Sunday.

The Paramount-DreamWorks release — starring Ben Stiller, Robert Downey Jr. and Jack Black as retards caught up in real battle while shooting a war movie — raised its 12-day total to $65.7 million.

link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080824/ap_en_mo/box_office;_ylt=AvoOum9prATrp8Qg3lzsGY2s0NUE)


Okay, I had to check and the actual article says 'actors' not 'retards'. I'm sure you threw that in there to make a point, but for anyone else who didn't click on the link, just want to let you know that that was not the real wording of the actual article.

Or maybe I'm missing the point altogether, which would not necessarily be a surprise.

[theultimatetruth]

I wonder how that whole boycott effort is working out?