Obama Daily Policy "Refine"

[From the Right]

With the dawning of a new day Obama "refines" another policy. Once again Obama is "Change You Can Count On!"
Clip from AP Wire:
By TOM RAUM
Associated Press Writer
CHICAGO (AP) -- In a reversal, Barack Obama is proposing tapping
the nation's strategic oil reserves to help drive down gasoline
prices, his campaign said Monday.

[FD2BLK]

With the dawning of a new day Obama "refines" another policy. Once again Obama is "Change You Can Count On!"
Clip from AP Wire:
By TOM RAUM
Associated Press Writer
CHICAGO (AP) -- In a reversal, Barack Obama is proposing tapping
the nation's strategic oil reserves to help drive down gasoline
prices, his campaign said Monday.


So, it's only bad when Obama "refines his position" right?

[From the Right]

So, it's only bad when Obama "refines his position" right?

Just getting a little hard to keep up. When he said he was for "change" he wasn't kidding. He "changes" every day. I give him credit, he's sticking to one position....CHANGE!

[FD2BLK]

Just getting a little hard to keep up. When he said he was for "change" he wasn't kidding. He "changes" every day. I give him credit, he's sticking to one position....CHANGE!

Yet you've said you like that McCain has refined some of his positions...

[Kace]

http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/551/barr2008iu6.jpg

[tater]

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/8/q/1/colbert08.jpg

[FD2BLK]

McKinney '08
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/images/2007/09/380364.jpg

[From the Right]

Yet you've said you like that McCain has refined some of his positions...

You keep coming back to this FD so I'll address. I said in a post probably a month ago, at least, that I was happy to see McCain "refining" a position (it was so long ago I can't even remember the issue). My point at the time was that the term "refining" was never used by the media for a McCain issue but only for Obama.

The fact I can't even remember what I was talking about with McCain yet we have at least 2 "refinings" by Obama in the week is what's truly at issue. I figure at this rate, Obama might just "refine" himself more to the right (considering he can't go any further left) by November.

[FD2BLK]

You keep coming back to this FD so I'll address. I said in a post probably a month ago, at least, that I was happy to see McCain "refining" a position (it was so long ago I can't even remember the issue). My point at the time was that the term "refining" was never used by the media for a McCain issue but only for Obama.

The fact I can't even remember what I was talking about with McCain yet we have at least 2 "refinings" by Obama in the week is what's truly at issue. I figure at this rate, Obama might just "refine" himself more to the right (considering he can't go any further left) by November.

But in the same thread you wanted Obama to be labeled a flip-flipper. I don't see the media puting that label on McCain either.

[From the Right]

But in the same thread you wanted Obama to be labeled a flip-flipper. I don't see the media puting that label on McCain either.

McCain doesn't "refine" a position almost daily as has become the case with Obama. I don't think it's fair to expect anyone to maintain their position 100% on every issue. There's room for "refining" as the Obama media now refer to it. What's the bigger issue that doesn't get any play with the National Barrack Company, the American Barrack Company or the Columbian Barrack System news departments is the fact Obama continues to change positions on issues. It was a huge issue with Kerry (flip-flopper) but nobody seems to care when Obama does it. It's hailed as intellectual. It's fine to change an opinion but Obama changes with the polls. Energy is an issue....OK, let drill offshore....OK, let's release some of the reserve. It's becoming almost laughable. I think it's more admirable to have a position and stand by it....at least for a couple days.

[Pro]

McCain doesn't "refine" a position almost daily as has become the case with Obama.

Huh? Which McCain are you referring to? The one who opposed the Bush tax cuts? The one who opposed offshore drilling? The one who promised to run a "positive" campaign"? The McCain who is running for President is a hell of a lot different than the McCain who was considered a "maverick" Senator.

I think it's more admirable to have a position and stand by it.

You mean like McCain did on tax cuts, offshore drilling and positive camapigning? :rolleyes:

[Jax]

McCain doesn't "refine" a position almost daily as has become the case with Obama.

Anyone wanna humor me and point out what his daily refines have been?

[Mr. Rugen]

I hate having a leader that is always trying to learn more about the issues of our people. In my opinion he should pick a position and stick to it no matter what happens.

[buckpasser]

John McCain was against offshore drilling in early June of this year.

McCain also voted against the Bush tax cuts. He now supports them.

McCain also proposed the Kennedy-McCain Immigration Bill. Less than a year later, he said he would veto his. own. bill.


So you have the three domestic issues Republicans are running on: energy, tax cuts, and immigration, and you see McCain flip-flopped on all three. And he JUST flip-flopped. He's been in Washington almost 30 years, and he just changed his positions on the issues that matter most.


Republicans not only don't care, they seem to go out of their way to not care.

You have Republicans who have basically gone, "all in", on Obama hatred, and to even mention McCain makes them put their hands over their ears and shout, "I am not listening to you...LA LA LA LA LA".

I don't see McCain's stance on issues changing any Republican's mind. Their vote is based on Obama (or any Democrat) and not how Conservative, etc. the Republican may or may not be.

[From the Right]

Huh? The one who promised to run a "positive" campaign"? :rolleyes:

This one kills me every time. McCain puts out an ad and it's an ATTACK. Obama puts out an ad and it's a response. There's nothing "negative" about comparing Obama to Hilton and Spears. It's true. People throng around this guy that's got NO record. Talk about style over substance. He's such a great speaker, he's so good looking.....blah blah. Seems anytime the truth hits too close to home it's labeled "negative."

What's Obama done? He spent less than 200 days in the Senate before announcing his candidacy. What's he going to do for the country that won't tax me into poverty? How's he going to WIN the war on terrorism? How's he going to keep America safe?

Nobody knows but he give a nice speech and looks good in a suit. That will serve us well. There are plenty of American's that can wear a suit and give a speech, I don't want them to be my President.

Obama, "change" you can count on.....DAILY!

[Diplomat]

If one can explain one's rationale for changing a position, I am willing to listen.
Both McCain and Obama have made adjustments in their positions. When a politician changes a PRINCIPLE, then I have more of a problem.

McCain is the same guy he always has been. And I assume Obama is, as well, although we don't know as much about him as we do McCain, simply because McCain has been around longer.

[Tripe Face]

Boy, if you believe the OP, Obama's almost as bad as that guy from Arizona... remember him?

McCain reversal #1
In 2003, Sen. John McCain said that ethanol "does nothing to reduce fuel consumption, nothing to increase our energy independence, nothing to improve air quality." Campaigning in Iowa in August 2006, he described ethanol as a "vital alternative energy source, not only because of our dependency on foreign oil but its greenhouse reduction effects."

McCain reversal #2
He voted to ban drilling in ANWR in 2005. Now he's all for it.

McCain reversal #3
On the issue of Social Security Privatization; On November 18, 2004 McCain announced, “Without privatization, I don’t see how you can possibly, over time, make sure that young Americans are able to receive Social Security benefits.” And in March 2003, McCain backed his President, declaring, “As part of Social Security reform, I believe that private savings accounts are a part of it - along the lines that President Bush proposed.”
In June, Mr. Straight Talk proclaimed at a New Hampshire event, “I’m not for, quote, privatizing Social Security. I never have been. I never will be.”

McCain reversal #4
On the Estate Tax;
On June 8, 2006, McCain on the Senate floor expressed his agreement with Teddy Roosevelt that “most great civilized countries have an income tax and an inheritance tax” and “in my judgment both should be part of our system of federal taxation.”
But after years of battling Republican colleagues dead-set on dismantling the so-called “death tax” and instead promoting a $5 million trigger, on Tuesday John McCain sounded the retreat (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/10/mccain-panders-to-death-t_n_106254.html). Now, he insists, “the estate tax is one of the most unfair tax laws on the books.”


Jeez,
if this guy did anymore flip-flops, the US Olympic team would be sending him the Beijing to win us a Gold Medal in platform diving.

[FD2BLK]

[snip]

if this guy did anymore flip-flops, the US Olympic team would be sending him the Beijing to win us a Gold Medal in platform diving.

Tripe, haven't you been reading? When it's Obama it's a flip-flop. When it's McCain he's "refining his position."

[Sultanosurf]

One person who won't be changing their political stance -- your Medialine poster:

http://drowneroad.msad51.org/Pages/MSAD51_DRSStaff/Kathleen_Hutchins/005EADC8-007EA7AB.0/Computer%20Geek.jpg

[Tripe Face]

Tripe, haven't you been reading? When it's Obama it's a flip-flop. When it's McCain he's "refining his position."

Oh, I should have known... Republicans love refining... oil especially!

[jhans24]

Tripe, haven't you been reading? When it's Obama it's a flip-flop. When it's McCain he's "refining his position."

Wow, you just don't seem to get it. Kerry does it and is called a flip-flopper. McCain does it and is called a flip-flopper. Obama does it and he's refining his position.

All we've learned is that both of them are willing to pander to popular opinion for votes, and neither party should criticize a flaw they both have.

[FD2BLK]

Wow, you just don't seem to get it. Kerry does it and is called a flip-flopper. McCain does it and is called a flip-flopper. Obama does it and he's refining his position.

All we've learned is that both of them are willing to pander to popular opinion for votes, and neither party should criticize a flaw they both have.

Oh, I get it. I'm just teasing FTR because he so wants the flip flip label to stick to Obama like it did to Kerry. But he doesn't want it on McCain.

[Lazlo Toth]

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." Ralph Waldo Emerson

[Kace]

What happened to all the McCain threads?

[News Is Broken]

What happened to all the McCain threads?

They were "refined" into Obama threads.

[Jax]

Anyone wanna humor me and point out what his daily refines have been?

Anyone? Anyone?

[FD2BLK]

What happened to all the McCain threads?

Haven't you been reading Bucky's posts? There are no McCain threads. Only Obama threads.

[From the Right]

Oh, I should have known... Republicans love refining... oil especially!

Thank God someone's interested in refining some oil. Not sure what you use Tripe but just about everything I own either runs on oil or was made with an oil by-product.

Maybe someday AlGore will get his way and the rest of us will run cars made out of paper that run on pig crap but for now we're a country that runs on oil. As soon as the democrats get that maybe we can start tapping into the oil WE have while working towards running paper cars on pig crap.

[From the Right]

Boy, if you believe the OP, Obama's almost as bad as that guy from Arizona... remember him?

McCain reversal #1
In 2003, Sen. John McCain said that ethanol "does nothing to reduce fuel consumption, nothing to increase our energy independence, nothing to improve air quality." Campaigning in Iowa in August 2006, he described ethanol as a "vital alternative energy source, not only because of our dependency on foreign oil but its greenhouse reduction effects."

McCain reversal #2
He voted to ban drilling in ANWR in 2005. Now he's all for it.

McCain reversal #3
On the issue of Social Security Privatization; On November 18, 2004 McCain announced, “Without privatization, I don’t see how you can possibly, over time, make sure that young Americans are able to receive Social Security benefits.” And in March 2003, McCain backed his President, declaring, “As part of Social Security reform, I believe that private savings accounts are a part of it - along the lines that President Bush proposed.”
In June, Mr. Straight Talk proclaimed at a New Hampshire event, “I’m not for, quote, privatizing Social Security. I never have been. I never will be.”

McCain reversal #4
On the Estate Tax;
On June 8, 2006, McCain on the Senate floor expressed his agreement with Teddy Roosevelt that “most great civilized countries have an income tax and an inheritance tax” and “in my judgment both should be part of our system of federal taxation.”
But after years of battling Republican colleagues dead-set on dismantling the so-called “death tax” and instead promoting a $5 million trigger, on Tuesday John McCain sounded the retreat (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/10/mccain-panders-to-death-t_n_106254.html). Now, he insists, “the estate tax is one of the most unfair tax laws on the books.”


Jeez,
if this guy did anymore flip-flops, the US Olympic team would be sending him the Beijing to win us a Gold Medal in platform diving.

Tripe, this is funny and exactly to my point. You have to dig back to 2003 for the first "refining." Looks like you've come up with 1 a year since 2003. Of course Obama has no record dating beyond a couple years and with just a couple hundred days in the Senate there's not much to work with.

Let's see.....This summer....Obama supports Rev. Wright, 2 weeks later, Obama dumps Wright....

This summer...Obama supports his church.....3 weeks later, Obama leaves his church

This summer...Obama doesn't support offshore drilling....new poll comes out a few weeks later.....Obama supports offshore drilling

This summer....Obama says election won't be about race.....polls get tight.....Obama says I don't look like other Presidents on our money.

Not even close......Obama "refines" more than Exxon.

[Jax]

Let's see.....This summer....Obama supports Rev. Wright, 2 weeks later, Obama dumps Wright....

This summer...Obama supports his church.....3 weeks later, Obama leaves his church

This summer...Obama doesn't support offshore drilling....new poll comes out a few weeks later.....Obama supports offshore drilling

This summer....Obama says election won't be about race.....polls get tight.....Obama says I don't look like other Presidents on our money.

These are the dumbest examples of "flip-flops" I think I've ever seen...

[Pro]

This one kills me every time. McCain puts out an ad and it's an ATTACK. Obama puts out an ad and it's a response. There's nothing "negative" about comparing Obama to Hilton and Spears. It's true. People throng around this guy that's got NO record. Talk about style over substance. He's such a great speaker, he's so good looking.....blah blah. Seems anytime the truth hits too close to home it's labeled "negative."

No, a negative ad is one that says why a voter shouldn't vote for your opponent, rather that why a voter should vote for you. There's nothing wrong with some negative campigning, as in "I differ with my opponent's proposals on_______". That's fair game. What McCain did crossed the line.

[Pro]

Let's see.....This summer....Obama supports Rev. Wright, 2 weeks later, Obama dumps Wright.....

So what?

This summer...Obama supports his church.....3 weeks later, Obama leaves his church

Again, so what? How's that going to affect you and me?

This summer...Obama doesn't support offshore drilling....new poll comes out a few weeks later.....Obama supports offshore drilling.

No he doesn't. He's not advocating it. All he said that if it was included in a bill that had the other things he proposes, he won't automatically veto it. It's called "compromise". Something almost every recent President - including Reagan and both Bushes - have done. I wonder if John McCain would sign a bill that contained a lifting of the offshore ban AND a windfall tax on big oil?

This summer....Obama says election won't be about race.....polls get tight.....Obama says I don't look like other Presidents on our money.

Race was made an issue far before this. By McCain, personally? No, probably not, and Obama acknowledges that. By those who want to see Obama defeated? Absolutely. It was to them that Obama was referring.

[From the Right]

So what?



Again, so what? How's that going to affect you and me?



No he doesn't. He's not advocating it. All he said that if it was included in a bill that had the other things he proposes, he won't automatically veto it. It's called "compromise". Something almost every recent President - including Reagan and both Bushes - have done. I wonder if John McCain would sign a bill that contained a lifting of the offshore ban AND a windfall tax on big oil?



Race was made an issue far before this. By McCain, personally? No, probably not, and Obama acknowledges that. By those who want to see Obama defeated? Absolutely. It was to them that Obama was referring.

You can say a lot of things about Obama but to say he's a "compromiser" is ridiculous. He's got the most liberal voting record (if you can call a few days a record) and hasn't crossed over to vote with the GOP on anything. McCain is a compromiser to a fault but not Obama. You call it compromise, I call it...."refining."

[Pro]

You can say a lot of things about Obama but to say he's a "compromiser" is ridiculous. He's got the most liberal voting record (if you can call a few days a record) and hasn't crossed over to vote with the GOP on anything. McCain is a compromiser to a fault but not Obama. You call it compromise, I call it...."refining."

Perhaps the Republicans haven't put forth any bill he could support. And if I'm not mistaken, Obama did vote for John McCain's immigration bill...you know, the one McCain said he'd veto? :rolleyes:

[From the Right]

Perhaps the Republicans haven't put forth any bill he could support. And if I'm not mistaken, Obama did vote for John McCain's immigration bill...you know, the one McCain said he'd veto? :rolleyes:

You must be talking about the McCain-KENNEDY immigration bill. Working with Kennedy, now THAT'S compromise.

McCain's problem with the bill was with the add-ons by the way, not the original bill......if I'M not mistaken. :rolleyes:

[FD2BLK]

Perhaps the Republicans haven't put forth any bill he could support. And if I'm not mistaken, Obama did vote for John McCain's immigration bill...you know, the one McCain said he'd veto? :rolleyes:

So, are you saying McCain was FOR the bill before he was AGAINST the bill? Sounds familiar.

[Clever Login Name]

Apparently, it's not just From The Right who thinks Obama's flip-flopping ... this is an open letter published in 'The Nation':

Change We Can Believe In
An Open Letter to Barack Obama
This article appeared in the August 18, 2008 edition of The Nation.

Add your name to this Open Letter calling on Barack Obama to stand firm on the principles he so compellingly articulated in the primary campaign.

Change We Can Believe In Presidential Election 2008

Progressive supporters of Barack Obama urge him to stand firm on the principles he so compellingly articulated in the primary. Join Phil Donahue, Barbara Ehrenreich, Studs Terkel, Walter Mosely, Gore Vidal, Bill McKibben, Jane Hamsher, Katrina vanden Heuvel and others in signing this open letter.

We write to congratulate you on the tremendous achievements of your campaign for the presidency of the United States.

Your candidacy has inspired a wave of political enthusiasm like nothing seen in this country for decades. In your speeches, you have sketched out a vision of a better future--in which the United States sheds its warlike stance around the globe and focuses on diplomacy abroad and greater equality and freedom for its citizens at home--that has thrilled voters across the political spectrum. Hundreds of thousands of young people have entered the political process for the first time, African-American voters have rallied behind you, and many of those alienated from politics-as-usual have been re-engaged.

You stand today at the head of a movement that believes deeply in the change you have claimed as the mantle of your campaign. The millions who attend your rallies, donate to your campaign and visit your website are a powerful testament to this new movement's energy and passion.

This movement is vital for two reasons: First, it will help assure your victory against John McCain in November. The long night of greed and military adventurism under the Bush Administration, which a McCain administration would continue, cannot be brought to an end a day too soon. An enthusiastic corps of volunteers and organizers will ensure that voters turn out to close the book on the Bush era on election day. Second, having helped bring you the White House, the support of this movement will make possible the changes that have been the platform of your campaign. Only a grassroots base as broad and as energized as the one that is behind you can counteract the forces of money and established power that are a dead weight on those seeking real change in American politics.

We urge you, then, to listen to the voices of the people who can lift you to the presidency and beyond.

Since your historic victory in the primary, there have been troubling signs that you are moving away from the core commitments shared by many who have supported your campaign, toward a more cautious and centrist stance--including, most notably, your vote for the FISA legislation granting telecom companies immunity from prosecution for illegal wiretapping, which angered and dismayed so many of your supporters.

We recognize that compromise is necessary in any democracy. We understand that the pressures brought to bear on those seeking the highest office are intense. But retreating from the stands that have been the signature of your campaign will weaken the movement whose vigorous backing you need in order to win and then deliver the change you have promised.

Here are key positions you have embraced that we believe are essential to sustaining this movement:

§ Withdrawal from Iraq on a fixed timetable.

§ A response to the current economic crisis that reduces the gap between the rich and the rest of us through a more progressive financial and welfare system; public investment to create jobs and repair the country's collapsing infrastructure; fair trade policies; restoration of the freedom to organize unions; and meaningful government enforcement of labor laws and regulation of industry.

§ Universal healthcare.

§ An environmental policy that transforms the economy by shifting billions of dollars from the consumption of fossil fuels to alternative energy sources, creating millions of green jobs.

§ An end to the regime of torture, abuse of civil liberties and unchecked executive power that has flourished in the Bush era.

§ A commitment to the rights of women, including the right to choose abortion and improved access to abortion and reproductive health services.

§ A commitment to improving conditions in urban communities and ending racial inequality, including disparities in education through reform of the No Child Left Behind Act and other measures.

§ An immigration system that treats humanely those attempting to enter the country and provides a path to citizenship for those already here.

§ Reform of the drug laws that incarcerate hundreds of thousands who need help, not jail.

§ Reform of the political process that reduces the influence of money and corporate lobbyists and amplifies the voices of ordinary people.

These are the changes we can believe in. In other areas--such as the use of residual forces and mercenary troops in Iraq, the escalation of the US military presence in Afghanistan, the resolution of the Israel-Palestine conflict, and the death penalty--your stated positions have consistently varied from the positions held by many of us, the "friends on the left" you addressed in recent remarks. If you win in November, we will work to support your stands when we agree with you and to challenge them when we don't. We look forward to an ongoing and constructive dialogue with you when you are elected President.

Stand firm on the principles you have so compellingly articulated, and you may succeed in bringing this country the change you've encouraged us to believe is possible.

Here is a list of early signatories to this open letter:

Rocky Anderson

Moustafa Bayoumi

Norman Birnbaum Professor Emeritus
Georgetown University Law Center

Tim Carpenter
Progressive Democrats of America

John Cavanaugh, director
Institute for Policy Studies

Juan Cole

Chuck Collins

Phil Donahue

Barbara Ehrenreich

Tom Engelhardt
Tomdispatch.com

Jodie Evans, co-f0under
CODEPINK: Women for Peace

Thomas Ferguson

Bill Fletcher Jr., executive editor,
BlackCommentator.com

Eric Foner

Milton Glaser

Robert Greenwald

William Greider

Jane Hamsher

Tom Hayden

Christopher Hayes

Richard Kim

Stuart Klawans

Bill McKibben

Walter Mosley

Eli Pariser

Richard Parker, president
Americans for Democratic Action

Gary Phillips
Writer and activist

Jon Pincus
achangeiscoming.net and member of Get FISA Right

Chip Pitts

Frances Piven

Elizabeth Pochoda

Katha Pollitt

Marcus Raskin

Betsy Reed

Bob Scheer

Herman Schwartz

Jonathan Schell

Gene Seymour

David Sirota

Norman Solomon
Author and Obama delegate to Democratic National Convention

Mike Stark

Jean Stein

Matt Stoller

Jonathan Tasini

Zephyr Teachout

Studs Terkel

Katrina vanden Heuvel

Gore Vidal

David Weir

Howard Zinn

Affiliations have been added when requested by the signatory.

[Union Label]

I hate having a leader that is always trying to learn more about the issues of our people. In my opinion he should pick a position and stick to it no matter what happens.

You hit the nail right on the head. (I'm assuming your post was made with the sarcasm key locked on).

President George W. Bush and his administration have provided a textbook example of how leadership in a vacuum can hobble a government. Unwillingness to listen to differing opinion along with the lack of ability to learn from past mistakes marginalizes the ability to lead. Part of being a leader is the ability to admit when something isn't working and that changes need to be made.

President Bush's attitude of my way or the highway has weakened our nation's stature both at home and abroad. He gained office by the slimmest of margins to begin with and promised early in his presidency to be a uniter. He obviously flip-flopped or "refined" this position early on and brought things to the level they are at today.

At this point in the campaign, the candidates should be open to everyone's ideas and use this give and take to shape their party's convention platform. The candidates should be doing more listening and less speaking right now. Once the conventions are over, there will be a lot less room to maneuver because most of the positions on important issues will be set in cement. Hopefully both party platforms will include language that will promote a spirit of compromise on the difficult issues.

Both Senators McCain and Obama have demonstrated a willingness to listen to the voters during their campaigns. We've seen both candidates make changes from previous stands on several issues and I see nothing wrong with that. It seems like some of the people who've posted on this thread feel that this is a sign of weakness and I could not disagree more. I hope whoever gets the nod in November will be able to accept input from the full spectrum of opinion that makes up the nation and have the wisdom to choose the best options.

I think that the vast majority of the electorate have grown sick and tired of the rhetoric, grandstanding and partisanship we've witnessed in Washington D.C. going back to the mid 1990's. Neither side of the aisle can claim this time as their finest hour by using any measure of success.

[Clever Login Name]

I'll add it seems like McCain's changes of heart have brought him closer to where his base is, while Obama's "refinements" have moved him away from his core.

[jhans24]

These are the dumbest examples of "flip-flops" I think I've ever seen...

public election finance.

Not a huge deal, just another example of how worthless his word is. Seems these candidates are more alike than we think.

[buckpasser]

Apparently, it's not just From The Right who thinks Obama's flip-flopping ...

Apparently, it's not just the Left, and the middle who think McCain is a flip-flopper:

Just a recap: McCain was AWOL on the windfall profits tax debate in the Senate (a failed Carter relic that he says he’d be “glad to look at”). He had nothing to say about Rep. John Peterson’s effort to lift the offshore drilling ban when it was up for a vote last week. And as I noted back on May 22, he has channeled the entire Democrat presidential field’s class warfare rhetoric and repeatedly referred to the oil industry’s “obscene profits.”

Now, he’s announced he wants to lift the offshore drilling moratorium and will give an energy speech tomorrow. He was for it before he was against it before he was for it again. Positively Kerryesque



-Michelle Malkin, from the log, "McCain on Offshore Drilling: For It Before He Was Against It Before He was For It Again"


http://michellemalkin.com/2008/06/16/mccain-on-offshore-drilling-for-it-before-he-was-against-it-before-he-was-for-it-again/

[Pro]

I'll add it seems like McCain's changes of heart have brought him closer to where his base is, while Obama's "refinements" have moved him away from his core.

So which of the two requires more courage?

[buckpasser]

I'll add it seems like McCain's changes of heart have brought him closer to where his base is, while Obama's "refinements" have moved him away from his core.

McCain's flip-flops were thrown against the wall in June, when he needed to secure his right wing base.


He won he party's nomination by capturing winner-take-all states. Republicans set up their primaries so that McCain earned all the delegates in many states with just 30-something percent of the vote.

It was an effort not to get the nominee who best fit the party, but one to secure a nominee as early as possible.

In June, McCain suddenly had (as you interestingly call it) a change of heart. On a host of issues.


That's why McCain was forced to flip-flop to the right.

Obama is moving toward the center.

[Diplomat]

Apparently, it's not just From The Right who thinks Obama's flip-flopping ... this is an open letter published in 'The Nation':

Change We Can Believe In
An Open Letter to Barack Obama
This article appeared in the August 18, 2008 edition of The Nation.

Add your name to this Open Letter calling on Barack Obama to stand firm on the principles he so compellingly articulated in the primary campaign.

Change We Can Believe In Presidential Election 2008

Progressive supporters of Barack Obama urge him to stand firm on the principles he so compellingly articulated in the primary. Join Phil Donahue, Barbara Ehrenreich, Studs Terkel, Walter Mosely, Gore Vidal, Bill McKibben, Jane Hamsher, Katrina vanden Heuvel and others in signing this open letter.

We write to congratulate you on the tremendous achievements of your campaign for the presidency of the United States.

Your candidacy has inspired a wave of political enthusiasm like nothing seen in this country for decades. In your speeches, you have sketched out a vision of a better future--in which the United States sheds its warlike stance around the globe and focuses on diplomacy abroad and greater equality and freedom for its citizens at home--that has thrilled voters across the political spectrum. Hundreds of thousands of young people have entered the political process for the first time, African-American voters have rallied behind you, and many of those alienated from politics-as-usual have been re-engaged.

You stand today at the head of a movement that believes deeply in the change you have claimed as the mantle of your campaign. The millions who attend your rallies, donate to your campaign and visit your website are a powerful testament to this new movement's energy and passion.

This movement is vital for two reasons: First, it will help assure your victory against John McCain in November. The long night of greed and military adventurism under the Bush Administration, which a McCain administration would continue, cannot be brought to an end a day too soon. An enthusiastic corps of volunteers and organizers will ensure that voters turn out to close the book on the Bush era on election day. Second, having helped bring you the White House, the support of this movement will make possible the changes that have been the platform of your campaign. Only a grassroots base as broad and as energized as the one that is behind you can counteract the forces of money and established power that are a dead weight on those seeking real change in American politics.

We urge you, then, to listen to the voices of the people who can lift you to the presidency and beyond.

Since your historic victory in the primary, there have been troubling signs that you are moving away from the core commitments shared by many who have supported your campaign, toward a more cautious and centrist stance--including, most notably, your vote for the FISA legislation granting telecom companies immunity from prosecution for illegal wiretapping, which angered and dismayed so many of your supporters.

We recognize that compromise is necessary in any democracy. We understand that the pressures brought to bear on those seeking the highest office are intense. But retreating from the stands that have been the signature of your campaign will weaken the movement whose vigorous backing you need in order to win and then deliver the change you have promised.

Here are key positions you have embraced that we believe are essential to sustaining this movement:

§ Withdrawal from Iraq on a fixed timetable.

§ A response to the current economic crisis that reduces the gap between the rich and the rest of us through a more progressive financial and welfare system; public investment to create jobs and repair the country's collapsing infrastructure; fair trade policies; restoration of the freedom to organize unions; and meaningful government enforcement of labor laws and regulation of industry.

§ Universal healthcare.

§ An environmental policy that transforms the economy by shifting billions of dollars from the consumption of fossil fuels to alternative energy sources, creating millions of green jobs.

§ An end to the regime of torture, abuse of civil liberties and unchecked executive power that has flourished in the Bush era.

§ A commitment to the rights of women, including the right to choose abortion and improved access to abortion and reproductive health services.

§ A commitment to improving conditions in urban communities and ending racial inequality, including disparities in education through reform of the No Child Left Behind Act and other measures.

§ An immigration system that treats humanely those attempting to enter the country and provides a path to citizenship for those already here.

§ Reform of the drug laws that incarcerate hundreds of thousands who need help, not jail.

§ Reform of the political process that reduces the influence of money and corporate lobbyists and amplifies the voices of ordinary people.

These are the changes we can believe in. In other areas--such as the use of residual forces and mercenary troops in Iraq, the escalation of the US military presence in Afghanistan, the resolution of the Israel-Palestine conflict, and the death penalty--your stated positions have consistently varied from the positions held by many of us, the "friends on the left" you addressed in recent remarks. If you win in November, we will work to support your stands when we agree with you and to challenge them when we don't. We look forward to an ongoing and constructive dialogue with you when you are elected President.

Stand firm on the principles you have so compellingly articulated, and you may succeed in bringing this country the change you've encouraged us to believe is possible.

Here is a list of early signatories to this open letter:

Rocky Anderson

Moustafa Bayoumi

Norman Birnbaum Professor Emeritus
Georgetown University Law Center

Tim Carpenter
Progressive Democrats of America

John Cavanaugh, director
Institute for Policy Studies

Juan Cole

Chuck Collins

Phil Donahue

Barbara Ehrenreich

Tom Engelhardt
Tomdispatch.com

Jodie Evans, co-f0under
CODEPINK: Women for Peace

Thomas Ferguson

Bill Fletcher Jr., executive editor,
BlackCommentator.com

Eric Foner

Milton Glaser

Robert Greenwald

William Greider

Jane Hamsher

Tom Hayden

Christopher Hayes

Richard Kim

Stuart Klawans

Bill McKibben

Walter Mosley

Eli Pariser

Richard Parker, president
Americans for Democratic Action

Gary Phillips
Writer and activist

Jon Pincus
achangeiscoming.net and member of Get FISA Right

Chip Pitts

Frances Piven

Elizabeth Pochoda

Katha Pollitt

Marcus Raskin

Betsy Reed

Bob Scheer

Herman Schwartz

Jonathan Schell

Gene Seymour

David Sirota

Norman Solomon
Author and Obama delegate to Democratic National Convention

Mike Stark

Jean Stein

Matt Stoller

Jonathan Tasini

Zephyr Teachout

Studs Terkel

Katrina vanden Heuvel

Gore Vidal

David Weir

Howard Zinn

Affiliations have been added when requested by the signatory.

These people are of course, the epitome of rational, tolerant, mainstream American thinking.

/sarcasm font off/

[Jax]

These people are of course, the epitome of rational, tolerant, mainstream American thinking.

/sarcasm font off/

Rocky Anderson can be my mayor anytime.

[Pro]

These people are of course, the epitome of rational, tolerant, mainstream American thinking.


Oh, you mean people who agree with you, right?

/sarcasm font off/

[Diplomat]

Oh, you mean people who agree with you, right?

/sarcasm font off/

Wrong again.

Most Democrats are liberals. These people are radicals and their agenda is socialist. They're angry because Mr. Obama is not kow-towing to them. They are just like any other special-interest group.

Mr. Obama wants to appeal to a broad spectrum of Americans. These people don't like that.

[Tripe Face]

McCain's frequent criticism of Obama's idea that we could reduce our gas consumption by getting a tune up and properly inflating our tires just pisses me off to know end. McCain can't be that stupid.

Just do the math.

Estimates I've read say we have 140,000,000 cars in America.

Say 100 Million of them get a tune up and their tires checked and because of that each one burns TWO gallons a week less gas than before the maintanence... just two gallons of gas a week saved... a very conservative estimate.

Do the math: 100,000,000 x 52 x 2.

10,400,000,000 gallons of gas saved in ONE YEAR in the USA... TEN TRILLION GALLONS OF GAS.

There's not a person on this thread who understands supply and demand who will argue that a drop of TEN-TRILLION gallons of gas purchased in a year won't exert downward pressure on the prices we pay at the pump.

And even the most optomistic estimates of off-shore drilling don't say we'll be creating TEN-TRILLION gallons of gasoline a year.

But the real saving would come if we just improved ALL vehicles gas milage:

We've done it before and when we did it really put the screws to OPEC.

This is from the Council on Foreign Relations:

Pres. Carter's policies made new American-built cars more efficient by seven miles per gallon (mpg) over six years. During Carter's term and the five years following it, oil imports from the unstable Persian Gulf region fell by 87 percent. From 1977 to 1985, U.S. GDP rose 27 percent while total U.S. oil imports fell by 42 percent, or 3.74 million barrels a day.

[Pro]

Most Democrats are liberals. These people are radicals and their agenda is socialist.

Once again, an opinion that differs from your's is "wrong".

And where do you get the "Democrats are socialists" from? If that's your opinion, fine. If I followed your logic I could say that was "wrong".

So you're "wrong". Two can play at this game.

[Diplomat]

Once again, an opinion that differs from your's is "wrong".

And where do you get the "Democrats are socialists" from? If that's your opinion, fine. If I followed your logic I could say that was "wrong".

So you're "wrong". Two can play at this game.

No, Pro, you are wrong. And you also seem to have trouble with reading comprehension.

The people who signed the letter are radicals. They are socialists. They are far from the mainstream of American thinking and also from rank-and-file Democrats. They are quite different from the majority of Democrats. These people think Democrats are too conservative, which is interesting since Democrats are generally considered the more liberal of the two major political parties in the US. They also published this letter in a far-left magazine. As I see it, if they wanted to appeal to mainstream Democrats, they'd have picked a more mainstream Democrat-oriented publication such as New Republic or the New York Times, etc.

If you want to play games, go right ahead. I shall express my opinion and try to have a rational discussion with fellow adults who are also tolerant of others' opinions. That obviously doesn't include you.

[Produce man]

These are the dumbest examples of "flip-flops" I think I've ever seen...You're right, although not for the reason you may be thinking.

[Pro]

No, Pro, you are wrong.

In the words of Ronald Reagan "There you go again". Someone who doesn't believe as you do is "wrong".

The people who signed the letter are radicals. They are socialists.

That's your opinion.

They are far from the mainstream of American thinking and also from rank-and-file Democrats. They are quite different from the majority of Democrats.

And how do you know this?

They As I see it, if they wanted to appeal to mainstream Democrats, they'd have picked a more mainstream Democrat-oriented publication such as New Republic or the New York Times, etc.

Finally, an admission that this is just your opinion!

I shall express my opinion and try to have a rational discussion with fellow adults who are also tolerant of others' opinions. That obviously doesn't include you.

You mean - IMO - people who are tolerant of YOUR opinion. Obviously you don't mean that you are tolerant of their's....they're "wrong"!

[Diplomat]

Pro should take up comedy writing. His convoluted logic has injected a bit of hilarity into this thread.

[Pro]

Pro should take up comedy writing. His convoluted logic has injected a bit of hilarity into this thread.

Ahh, I see. Can't refute, so you insult. Typical. No surprise.

[Produce man]

I believe now that if something can't be carbon-dated, Pro says it's opinion.

[Clever Login Name]

So which of the two requires more courage?

You're the absolute last person here to talk about courage ... got any more cowardly accusations you want to throw around without backing them up?

[Pro]

You're the absolute last person here to talk about courage ... got any more cowardly accusations you want to throw around without backing them up?

So which of the two requires more courage?

[Clever Login Name]

So which of the two requires more courage?

I'll answer that when you back up your claim ... with evidence ... that Diplomat is a racist because of his use of 'racist code words and phrases' on this forum.

[Pro]

So which of the two requires more courage?

[Kace]

Diplomat's a racist??? When the heck did this happen???

[Clever Login Name]

So which of the two requires more courage?

Typical liberal ******* ...

[Pro]

So which of the two requires more courage?

[Jax]

The people who signed the letter are radicals. They are socialists. They are far from the mainstream of American thinking and also from rank-and-file Democrats.

I would disagree with you on Rocky Anderson, former mayor of the far-left socialist bastion of Salt Lake City.

[Clever Login Name]

So which of the two requires more courage?

Why won't you answer my question ... the one I've been asking for weeks?
You called Diplomat a racist ... I've asked you umpteen times to back up your claim that you know he's a racist because of the 'code words and phrases' he's used on Medialine. You've refused. Either back it up, admit you just made it up or apologize ... but knowing you, you won't. Puss ...

[Pro]

So which of the two requires more courage?

[Tripe Face]

After reading Diplomat's post calling the people who signed that letter "socialists and radicals" I decided to read it again. As usual Dip's head is so far up his ass he's using his tongue to give himself a prostate check.

Here are the key parts of the letter:


Here are key positions you have embraced that we believe are essential to sustaining this movement:

§ Withdrawal from Iraq on a fixed timetable. Yes that's so radical that like 70% of Americans agree with the idea.

§ A response to the current economic crisis that reduces the gap between the rich and the rest of us through a more progressive financial and welfare system; public investment to create jobs and repair the country's collapsing infrastructure; fair trade policies; restoration of the freedom to organize unions; and meaningful government enforcement of labor laws and regulation of industry. I don't think reducing the gap between the rich and "the rest of us" is so radical. But I can see why Dip might be afraid of more jobs and meaningful enforcement of labor laws and industry regulation. I for one am sick of industry writing the rules government uses to regulate them.

§ Universal healthcare. I personally believe we need health INSURANCE reform, not heathcare reform. Every car owner in my state is required to have auto insurance, same basic rule should apply to people.

§ An environmental policy that transforms the economy by shifting billions of dollars from the consumption of fossil fuels to alternative energy sources, creating millions of green jobs. Wow, reducing air pollution and making us less reliant on oil from places like Saudi Arabia, Venezuala and Nigeria... goodness... THAT'S just too radical for me! (sarcasm font off)

§ An end to the regime of torture, abuse of civil liberties and unchecked executive power that has flourished in the Bush era. I know you love torture and the flushing away of our civil rights, but a lot of us who are NOT radicals or socialists will be glad when this sh!t ends.

§ A commitment to the rights of women, including the right to choose abortion and improved access to abortion and reproductive health services. We disagree here. I have posted several times my opposition to abortion for birth control. No need to rehash that here... but support of a woman's right to choose doesn't make one a radical or socialist.

§ A commitment to improving conditions in urban communities and ending racial inequality, including disparities in education through reform of the No Child Left Behind Act and other measures.
I have no trouble with any of this and I don't know of ANY people in the education business who think No Child Left Behind is not in need of major reform.

§ An immigration system that treats humanely those attempting to enter the country and provides a path to citizenship for those already here. I say put them all in a room and let Lou Dobbs sort them out. Again, the above is hardly radical or socialist.

§ Reform of the drug laws that incarcerate hundreds of thousands who need help, not jail. Zero, I'll let you handle this one.

§ Reform of the political process that reduces the influence of money and corporate lobbyists and amplifies the voices of ordinary people. This one is so radical and socialist that JOHN MCCAIN has hitched his wagon to it for YEARS.


So Dip, I can see a lot of policy issues here that you would disagree with, yet I don't think any SANE person would consider them "radical" nor "socialist" (with the possible exception of universal healthcare).

[Diplomat]

Tripe--you obviously aren't familiar with the people who signed this letter. They are all far-left socialists and have a long history of far-left pronouncements.

You are not worth the time to go into a detailed rebuttal of what you just posted simply because you are not a decent or honorable human being. That's not to mention the fact that you have twisted what was in the letter, using examples with which those people would disagree. When you get control of your mood swings, perhaps we can talk.

I will say this, though: I thought the campaign finance reform stuff was a bad idea and I still do. Don't care who sponsored it--McCain has been wrong on that.

You expressing concern about civil liberties is as absurd as Britney Spears concerned about poor parenting because of your legendary intolerance of those who don't kow-tow to your beliefs. You only want liberties for yourself and those who share your narrow-mindedness, not for anyone else.

[Produce man]

*sigh*

Tripe...:bs:

[Pro]

Tripe--you obviously aren't familiar with the people who signed this letter. They are all far-left socialists and have a long history of far-left pronouncements.

In YOUR view, of course.

You are not worth the time to go into a detailed rebuttal of what you just posted simply because you are not a decent or honorable human being. That's not to mention the fact that you have twisted what was in the letter, using examples with which those people would disagree. When you get control of your mood swings, perhaps we can talk.

In other word's, he CAN'T rebut any of that, but still wanted to get in an insult or two.

You expressing concern about civil liberties is as absurd as Britney Spears concerned about poor parenting because of your legendary intolerance of those who don't kow-tow to your beliefs. You only want liberties for yourself and those who share your narrow-mindedness, not for anyone else.

The tried and true Diplomat response. Anyone who disagrees with him is "intolerant". How many people has he said that about in this forum? I've lost count.

[Clever Login Name]

So which of the two requires more courage?

Puss ...

[From the Right]

So which of the two requires more courage?

I expected you to say that.

[Kace]

Okay...will someone please answer the friggin' courage question?

And Pro, please explain the whole, "Diplomat = Racist," thing.

Kudos to whoever can answer whichever first.

[Diplomat]

Only Dan Rather can answer the courage question. I think he has a copyright on the word now. ;)

[Mr. Rugen]

Okay...will someone please answer the friggin' courage question?

And Pro, please explain the whole, "Diplomat = Racist," thing.

Kudos to whoever can answer whichever first.
1. Pro wants us to order him some fries, which takes courage because they're "French" Fries. I offered to order him "chips" but he was beligerent and attacked me personally about my height and the names fo my children.

2. Diplomat doesn't like whites, and it's been proven. I also do not like whites or Jews, but that hasn't been proven, unless you count this admission.

[s'news]

Looks like I have to update the list of people Diplomat has slapped at here on MediaLine.

Here's an updated (November '08) list of those that Diplomat has slapped at here on Medialine.

My thanks to those who have assisted.

Ahem.

Helen Thomas
Paul Krugman
NPR
Jesse Jackson
Ted Kennedy
PBS
John Edwards
John Kerry
People who profess to help the poor
The Dixie Chicks
Hillary Clinton
Bill Clinton
Al Gore
Al Gore Sr.
The idea that Al Gore lives in Tennessee
School administrators
The Religious Left
Michael Moore
People who ask for a link
Al Franken
The Gospel of Supply Side Jesus
The New York Times
Los Angeles Times
Bruce Springsteen
Barbra Streisand
Tom Daschle
People who questioned the Bush tax cuts
Cynthia McKinney
Molly Ivins
Larry Flynt
James Carville
People who celebrate Kwanzaa
Janet Reno
"Humorless leftists"
The "PC left"
Personal-injury trial lawyers
"Leftist professors"
"Leftie professors"
NAACP
Benjamin Chavis
Julian Bond
Kweisi Mfume
ACLU
Dick Gephardt
Labor unions
Hans Blix
Maureen Dowd
Bill Moyers
Bill Maher
Whoopi Goldberg
Paul Begala
Government schools
Lloyd Bentsen
Jim Hightower
Jayson Blair
Howell Raines
Gerald Boyd
Arthur Sulzberger Jr.
NEA
Maxine Waters
FAIR
Ron Reagan
Eddie Bernice Johnson
Donald Trump
Linda Ronstadt
Dan Rather
MTV
Teresa Heinz Kerry
Al Sharpton
Pete Townshend
Phil Spector
The cast and crew of Cats*
Terry Gross
Camryn Manheim
The Center for American Progress
MoveOn.org
"David Brock's outfit"
David Brock
Take Back the Media
Jeremy Glick
s'news**
Jimmy Carter
Julienne Malveaux
Media Matters for America
Cell phones
Dennis Kucinich
Martha Burke
The Today Show
Ben Bradlee
Katharine Graham
People who talk about "the children"
Society of Professional Journalists
Barack Obama
Bob Herbert
Michael Kinsley
Rush & Molloy
Kitty Kelly
Howard Dean
Pat Robertson
Adm. William J. Crowe
George Soros
Union leaders
Bureaucrats
Walter Cronkite
UC Berkeley
Eleanor Clift
Tucker Carlson
Ron Brown
Nina Totenberg
Warren Buffet
Lee Iococca
Anyone suggesting Paul Hamm return his gold medal
Barbara Mikulski
Cynthia McKinney
Charles Rangel
Tom Harkin
France
Nancy Pelosi
James Jeffords
Alan Keyes
Lowell Weicker
Jessica Lange
Sean Penn
Janeane Garofalo
Pat Buchanan
Angela Buchanan
Marian Wright Edelman
Children's Defense Fund
Bernie Sanders
People for the American Way
Gregory Peck
Jason Blair
Bob Graham
The Socialist Workers Party
The Communist Party USA
Angela Davis
Protesters. They don't bathe.
Rev. Sun Myung Moon
Mary Mapes
The Boston Globe
Carole Simpson
Charles Rangel
Terry Sanford
The News & Observer
John Kenneth Galbraith
Barry Lynn
Common Cause
Alliance for Better Campaigns
Media Access Project
Media for Democracy
Office of Communications of the United Church of Christ
Houston police
Pat Robertson****
Jerry Falwell****
James Dobson****
Louisville's The Courier-Journal
Albert Hunt
Jim Sasser
Greg Palast
Corinne Brown
Eminem
Ludacris
Joseph Biden
Barack Obama
Ted Rall
Frank Rich
The National Conversation on Race
John Hope Franklin
Keith Olbermann
Christiane Amanpour
Bryant Gumbel
Willian Sloane Coffin
Joel Levy
Howard Beale
Jan Egeland
Columbia Journalism Review
The United Nations
Robert Scheer
Michael Gartner
Ashlee Simpson
Robert Byrd
A leftist DJ in Florida
Hawaii ACLU
Rep. Andrew Fleischmann
His congressman, a (surprise!) Democrat
People wanting him to back up statements about Paul Krugman
Aaron Brown
Bernard Sanders
Harry Reid
Christina Hoff Summers
Fay Vincent
Bart Giamatti
Gary Sick
The Poynter Institute
James Moran
His state representative
Janeane Garafalo
Kroger
Houston Chronicle
Robert Mapplethorpe
Donald Riegle
Dennis DeConcini
Cyrus Vance
"Donald Wildmon's outfit"
Carol Mosely Braun
Loretta Sanchez
Darrell Waltrip
Fidel Castro
Alessandra Stanley
Steven Glass
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Ronnie Earle
Share the Land, a song
Harry Belafonte
Jokes about blow jobs
Patrick Leahy
Bella Abzug
Kathleen Blanco
Ray Nagin
Mary Landrieu
neoconservative, the word
Dennis Kozlowski
International Answer
Workers World Party
Rigoberta Menchú Tum
Lawrence Walsh
Howard Metzenbaum
democracynow.org
commondreams.org
Father Robert Drinan
Matthew Miller
Hugo Chavez
Tucker Carlson
Rocky Anderson
Lynne Spears
Elizabeth Edwards

Moustafa Bayoumi

Norman Birnbaum Professor Emeritus
Georgetown University Law Center

Tim Carpenter
Progressive Democrats of America

John Cavanaugh, director
Institute for Policy Studies

Juan Cole

Chuck Collins

Phil Donahue

Barbara Ehrenreich

Tom Engelhardt
Tomdispatch.com

Jodie Evans, co-f0under
CODEPINK: Women for Peace

Thomas Ferguson

Bill Fletcher Jr., executive editor,
BlackCommentator.com

Eric Foner

Milton Glaser

Robert Greenwald

William Greider

Jane Hamsher

Tom Hayden

Christopher Hayes

Richard Kim

Stuart Klawans

Bill McKibben

Walter Mosley

Eli Pariser

Richard Parker, president
Americans for Democratic Action

Gary Phillips
Writer and activist

Jon Pincus
achangeiscoming.net and member of Get FISA Right

Chip Pitts

Frances Piven

Elizabeth Pochoda

Katha Pollitt

Marcus Raskin

Betsy Reed

Bob Scheer

Herman Schwartz

Jonathan Schell

Gene Seymour

David Sirota

Norman Solomon
Author and Obama delegate to Democratic National Convention

Mike Stark

Jean Stein

Matt Stoller

Jonathan Tasini

Zephyr Teachout

Studs Terkel

Katrina vanden Heuvel

Gore Vidal

David Weir

Howard Zinn

Tripe Face*****

Susan Hoerchner

And ...

"An anti-Semitic news director who refused to reimburse travel and other expenses."

Notes:

*He called them "a bunch of pussies."***

**Added for full disclosure.

***Just kidding. He surely loves musicals.

****Usually as sacrificial lambs, when in the process of bashing lefties.

*****Tripe Face insisted that he be added to the list.

(Those sending along additions to this list are asked to please carefully check the list first. I know, it's long.)
__________________

[jhans24]

OK, I'll answer the courage question. Neither. Real courage would be standing up for what you believe in, not changing your view based on the latest polls.

[Mr. Rugen]

Looks like I have to update the list of people Diplomat has slapped at here on MediaLine.

Here's an updated (August '08) list of those that Diplomat has slapped at here on Medialine.

My thanks to those who have assisted.

Ahem.

Helen Thomas
Paul Krugman
NPR
Jesse Jackson
Ted Kennedy
PBS
John Edwards
John Kerry
People who profess to help the poor
The Dixie Chicks
Hillary Clinton
Bill Clinton
Al Gore
Al Gore Sr.
The idea that Al Gore lives in Tennessee
School administrators
The Religious Left
Michael Moore
People who ask for a link
Al Franken
The Gospel of Supply Side Jesus
The New York Times
Los Angeles Times
Bruce Springsteen
Barbra Streisand
Tom Daschle
People who questioned the Bush tax cuts
Cynthia McKinney
Molly Ivins
Larry Flynt
James Carville
People who celebrate Kwanzaa
Janet Reno
"Humorless leftists"
The "PC left"
Personal-injury trial lawyers
"Leftist professors"
"Leftie professors"
NAACP
Benjamin Chavis
Julian Bond
Kweisi Mfume
ACLU
Dick Gephardt
Labor unions
Hans Blix
Maureen Dowd
Bill Moyers
Bill Maher
Whoopi Goldberg
Paul Begala
Government schools
Lloyd Bentsen
Jim Hightower
Jayson Blair
Howell Raines
Gerald Boyd
Arthur Sulzberger Jr.
NEA
Maxine Waters
FAIR
Ron Reagan
Eddie Bernice Johnson
Donald Trump
Linda Ronstadt
Dan Rather
MTV
Teresa Heinz Kerry
Al Sharpton
Pete Townshend
Phil Spector
The cast and crew of Cats*
Terry Gross
Camryn Manheim
The Center for American Progress
MoveOn.org
"David Brock's outfit"
David Brock
Take Back the Media
Jeremy Glick
s'news**
Jimmy Carter
Julienne Malveaux
Media Matters for America
Cell phones
Dennis Kucinich
Martha Burke
The Today Show
Ben Bradlee
Katharine Graham
People who talk about "the children"
Society of Professional Journalists
Barack Obama
Bob Herbert
Michael Kinsley
Rush & Molloy
Kitty Kelly
Howard Dean
Pat Robertson
Adm. William J. Crowe
George Soros
Union leaders
Bureaucrats
Walter Cronkite
UC Berkeley
Eleanor Clift
Tucker Carlson
Ron Brown
Nina Totenberg
Warren Buffet
Lee Iococca
Anyone suggesting Paul Hamm return his gold medal
Barbara Mikulski
Cynthia McKinney
Charles Rangel
Tom Harkin
France
Nancy Pelosi
James Jeffords
Alan Keyes
Lowell Weicker
Jessica Lange
Sean Penn
Janeane Garofalo
Pat Buchanan
Angela Buchanan
Marian Wright Edelman
Children's Defense Fund
Bernie Sanders
People for the American Way
Gregory Peck
Jason Blair
Bob Graham
The Socialist Workers Party
The Communist Party USA
Angela Davis
Protesters. They don't bathe.
Rev. Sun Myung Moon
Mary Mapes
The Boston Globe
Carole Simpson
Charles Rangel
Terry Sanford
The News & Observer
John Kenneth Galbraith
Barry Lynn
Common Cause
Alliance for Better Campaigns
Media Access Project
Media for Democracy
Office of Communications of the United Church of Christ
Houston police
Pat Robertson****
Jerry Falwell****
James Dobson****
Louisville's The Courier-Journal
Albert Hunt
Jim Sasser
Greg Palast
Corinne Brown
Eminem
Ludacris
Joseph Biden
Barack Obama
Ted Rall
Frank Rich
The National Conversation on Race
John Hope Franklin
Keith Olbermann
Christiane Amanpour
Bryant Gumbel
Willian Sloane Coffin
Joel Levy
Howard Beale
Jan Egeland
Columbia Journalism Review
The United Nations
Robert Scheer
Michael Gartner
Ashlee Simpson
Robert Byrd
A leftist DJ in Florida
Hawaii ACLU
Rep. Andrew Fleischmann
His congressman, a (surprise!) Democrat
People wanting him to back up statements about Paul Krugman
Aaron Brown
Bernard Sanders
Harry Reid
Christina Hoff Summers
Fay Vincent
Bart Giamatti
Gary Sick
The Poynter Institute
James Moran
His state representative
Janeane Garafalo
Kroger
Houston Chronicle
Robert Mapplethorpe
Donald Riegle
Dennis DeConcini
Cyrus Vance
"Donald Wildmon's outfit"
Carol Mosely Braun
Loretta Sanchez
Darrell Waltrip
Fidel Castro
Alessandra Stanley
Steven Glass
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Ronnie Earle
Share the Land, a song
Harry Belafonte
Jokes about blow jobs
Patrick Leahy
Bella Abzug
Kathleen Blanco
Ray Nagin
Mary Landrieu
neoconservative, the word
Dennis Kozlowski
International Answer
Workers World Party
Rigoberta Menchú Tum
Lawrence Walsh
Howard Metzenbaum
democracynow.org
commondreams.org
Father Robert Drinan
Matthew Miller
Hugo Chavez
Tucker Carlson
Rocky Anderson

Moustafa Bayoumi

Norman Birnbaum Professor Emeritus
Georgetown University Law Center

Tim Carpenter
Progressive Democrats of America

John Cavanaugh, director
Institute for Policy Studies

Juan Cole

Chuck Collins

Phil Donahue

Barbara Ehrenreich

Tom Engelhardt
Tomdispatch.com

Jodie Evans, co-f0under
CODEPINK: Women for Peace

Thomas Ferguson

Bill Fletcher Jr., executive editor,
BlackCommentator.com

Eric Foner

Milton Glaser

Robert Greenwald

William Greider

Jane Hamsher

Tom Hayden

Christopher Hayes

Richard Kim

Stuart Klawans

Bill McKibben

Walter Mosley

Eli Pariser

Richard Parker, president
Americans for Democratic Action

Gary Phillips
Writer and activist

Jon Pincus
achangeiscoming.net and member of Get FISA Right

Chip Pitts

Frances Piven

Elizabeth Pochoda

Katha Pollitt

Marcus Raskin

Betsy Reed

Bob Scheer

Herman Schwartz

Jonathan Schell

Gene Seymour

David Sirota

Norman Solomon
Author and Obama delegate to Democratic National Convention

Mike Stark

Jean Stein

Matt Stoller

Jonathan Tasini

Zephyr Teachout

Studs Terkel

Katrina vanden Heuvel

Gore Vidal

David Weir

Howard Zinn


And ...

"An anti-Semitic news director who refused to reimburse travel and other expenses."

Notes:

*He called them "a bunch of pussies."***

**Added for full disclosure.

***Just kidding. He surely loves musicals.

****Usually as sacrificial lambs, when in the process of bashing lefties.

(Those sending along additions to this list are asked to please carefully check the list first. I know, it's long.)
__________________
I cannot accept this list as fact until it is in alphabetical order.

[s'news]

Damn teachers! (Shakes fist at monitor.)

[Kace]

Actually it would help...

...along with some sorta references that indicate examples of Diplomat's hatred of the listed. Otherwise, it's kinda hard to take the list all that seriously.

[Tripe Face]

Looks like I have to update the list of people Diplomat has slapped at here on MediaLine.

Here's an updated (August '08) list of those that Diplomat has slapped at here on Medialine.



S'news... I say again... why am I not on that list. No one has worked harder to piss off Dip than I.

He's called me a "hater" and even threatened violence upon my family.

S'news, deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, You WANT me on that list... you NEED me on that list... I use words like Diplotwit, Humorless Moron and stupidity. We use them as the backbone of a life trying to keep Medialine lively. You use them as a punchline.

Dip, I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a poster man who rises and sleeps under grandma's roof in Tennessee and then questions the manner in which I abuse him.
I would rather you just said "thank you," and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest that you pick up a keyboard and write a post that actually addresses the issue at hand, not your psychobabble analysis of me. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.

[s'news]

Go look again on page 3, Your Tripeness. I aim to please.

[s'news]

Actually it would help...

...along with some sorta references that indicate examples of Diplomat's hatred of the listed. Otherwise, it's kinda hard to take the list all that seriously.

He just signed on to the last 50 or so in this thread.

If you've been paying any attention to his postings, the list should not be at all surprising.

Also please note that I didn't use the word "hatred." It's a list of people he's attacked, said negative things about or otherwise slapped at here on MediaLine.

[Tripe Face]

Go look again on page 3, Your Tripeness. I aim to please.

You, sir, are an Officer and a Gentleman. (get it, another military movie allusion, I kill myself... really... I make me laugh and laugh)

[s'news]

You are too kind. For the record, I'm not an officer but I do try to be something of a gentleman.

[Diplomat]

Tripe--I did not threaten your family and you are lying through your teeth (or in your case, probably dentures) when you say that. I said I was concerned about your family because of YOUR volatility and I make no apologies for saying that. I hope you show more decency toward them that you do toward others. I do not threaten people's families. You might wish physical harm upon people just because you disagree with them but I don't do that. And most people do not. You had the thread removed because you know if it were still up, you'd be proven wrong. So every time you continue spewing this lie about me, I'm gonna call you on it. And guess what, Mr. Narrow-Minded Tripe? You can't do anything about it except have one of your legendary online mood swings.

Also--I am not a native Tennessean, no matter how many times you say it. I have moved several times in my life. Perhaps you don't understand the concept of a "mobile" society.

Criticizing someone is not the same as hating them. Kace, rest assured that this so-called "list" is full of distortions as most, if not all, of what I have said was taken out of context by the person compiling it. If she wishes to defend people who make racist and anti-Semitic remarks--as she is doing by including some of those people on this list, she is free to do so. But I am free to fire back when she brings forth her untruths. She also claims to have had help in compiling it, something I simply do not believe.

[Diplomat]

You are too kind. For the record, I'm not an officer but I do try to be something of a gentleman.


Tripe kind? Next thing you know, we'll be calling Lynne Spears a model parent or the Nation a far-right publication.

[s'news]

Kace,

He just signed on to Tripe Face.

Do I add Lynne Spears and/or The Nation to the list? I'm thinking yes on Spears but no on The Nation.

[Kace]

Also please note that I didn't use the word "hatred." It's a list of people he's attacked, said negative things about or otherwise slapped at here on MediaLine.

In fairness, couldn't you make similiar lists for other people here? Why focus on Diplomat?

[Diplomat]

Kace,

He just signed on to Tripe Face.

Do I add Lynne Spears and/or The Nation to the list? I'm thinking yes on Spears but no on The Nation.

Nice of you to defend Tripe's big lie.

Perhaps we should make a list of all the people s'news has ripped in some form. It would be quite lengthy.

[s'news]

I'd start one for you, Kace, but I doubt it would grow into much of a list.

Way back when, there was a thread where Diplomat was slapping at a bunch of people. I pointed it out and he slapped at some more people. So I made a list. It grew. I added names when I saw them. Folks sent me e-mails pointing out some of them.

I hadn't done anything with that list for a couple of years or so, but the mass-slapping of all those people in this thread led me to make an update.

[halfpiperocks]

Oh Absolutely Kace, Dip is just one of the only peeps who would actually care. NYer and Produce are not worth the time and effort, since I think they say stuff intentionally to *iss people off most of the time. And even I admit that I found that list to be long, but he does have a lot of posts - so maybe.

[Diplomat]

I call BS on s'news's claim that others helped him. Yeah, right.

Of course, he is one of a handful of posters who announced their arrival at Medialine. He and ThetaBurst particularly stand out.

He can criticize me all he wants. I stand by my criticisms of the people as I actually made them, not as s'news claims I made them. His willingness to defend some of these people is quite telling. And it's not pretty, folks.

[Diplomat]

Oh Absolutely Kace, Dip is just one of the only peeps who would actually care. NYer and Produce are not worth the time and effort, since I think they say stuff intentionally to *iss people off most of the time. And even I admit that I found that list to be long, but he does have a lot of posts - so maybe.


My advice is to read what people actually post, as opposed to what others claim they post.

I don't really care what Tripe and s'news think of me. I am thankful I don't have to be around them in real life, although I've been around plenty who had the same exalted opinions of themselves and believed in their infallibility.

Where have you been lately? Haven't seen you in a while.

[Mr. Rugen]

Where have you been lately? Haven't seen you in a while.
I've been posting under another name for a while, but now I'm back as Halfpiperocks.


Of crap.
Nevermind.

[Pro]

OK, I'll answer the courage question. Neither. Real courage would be standing up for what you believe in, not changing your view based on the latest polls.


You don't take into account willingness to compromise?

Then I suppose no U.S. President has had "real courage", right? :rolleyes:

[Pro]

Perhaps we should make a list of all the people s'news has ripped in some form. It would be quite lengthy.

Go right ahead, if you wish.

[jama]

I'll start it....

Diplomat

[Pro]

Gee, ya think? :rolleyes:

[s'news]

I'm not fond of spinach. There, I said it. Go ahead and add it to the list.

[s'news]

I'll start it....

Diplomat

It's my opinion that the Dodge Diplomat isn't one of the great examples of American engineering.

[Bandit]

I'm not fond of spinach. There, I said it. You implied once that dirty colons were unhappy. And you do have a tendency to shred large objects.

Outside of that, it's all good. ;)

[Produce man]

Lorne Greene has been ripped and blamed here more than any regular poster.

[Sultanosurf]

Do lists of ignore lists count?

Hey Dip's not totally without merit. At least when he rips people he does it with proper spelling and punctuation. And when he can latch onto anybody who remotely shares his opinion, you have to admit he's among the best at written brown-nosing.

(The ultimate glass-half-full guy here...)

[Pro]

And when he can latch onto anybody who remotely shares his opinion, you have to admit he's among the best at written brown-nosing.

Perhaps, but the "Amens" and "Preach on, brothers" do get old after awile.

[Sultanosurf]

Amen. (Kidding)

Ah, you guys do a good enough job ripping each other. I'll leave you to it...

[Diplomat]

Go right ahead, if you wish.

If she were someone important or significant, perhaps. But since that is SO not the case, I shall not.

[Produce man]

Perhaps, but the "Amens" and "Preach on, brothers" do get old after awile.Kind of like "well, that's your opinion" and "of course you would think that".

[Diplomat]

Kind of like "well, that's your opinion" and "of course you would think that".

Amen, Produce!

Preach on!

:)

[Pro]

Kind of like "well, that's your opinion" and "of course you would think that".

That's your opinion, and of course you'd think that.

[Tripe Face]

Now you people are just trying to pad your post count.

[Kace]

S'news has the highest postcount of all of us. I'm just in the Top 5. :whistle:

[neodeity]

If she were someone important or significant, perhaps. But since that is SO not the case, I shall not.

Is s'news a woman? I thought earlier in this thread he/she/it made reference to trying to be a gentleman; that's seldom a woman's goal. Are you referring to s'news as a "she" in an attempt to ridicule? Is being a woman a negative in your world? Is this gym class bullying? I think women, in general, should be added to "Dip doesn't like" list (some of the things he used to say about 2:30 would harelip the pope).

[Lazlo Toth]

S'news has the highest postcount of all of us. I'm just in the Top 5. :whistle:

It would be even more interesting if Medialine ran a meter on word count. I can think of a couple of posters whose prolixity would put them at the head of the pack.

[Mr. Rugen]

Is s'news a woman? I thought earlier in this thread he/she/it made reference to trying to be a gentleman; that's seldom a woman's goal. Are you referring to s'news as a "she" in an attempt to ridicule? Is being a woman a negative in your world? Is this gym class bullying? I think women, in general, should be added to "Dip doesn't like" list (some of the things he used to say about 2:30 would harelip the pope).
Hey, what happened to 2:30 and Writer2? I liked those guys.

[Produce man]

Now you people are just trying to pad your post count.Says the man with over 11,000 posts...:)

[Produce man]

Hey, what happened to 2:30 and Writer2? I liked those guys.They're busy working on Obama's campaign staff.

[Sultanosurf]

Is being a woman a negative in your world? Is this gym class bullying? I think women, in general, should be added to "Dip doesn't like" list (some of the things he used to say about 2:30 would harelip the pope).

Neo goes on the list...

[Diplomat]

Is s'news a woman? I thought earlier in this thread he/she/it made reference to trying to be a gentleman; that's seldom a woman's goal. Are you referring to s'news as a "she" in an attempt to ridicule? Is being a woman a negative in your world? Is this gym class bullying? I think women, in general, should be added to "Dip doesn't like" list (some of the things he used to say about 2:30 would harelip the pope).


If you're concerned about bullying, there are other posters you should confront. There are several who come to mind. I am not among them.

Being a woman is not negative in my world. Not at all. I'm not really sure what s'news is--if he is a man, OK. A gentleman? I think not.

I make no apologies for what I said about 2:30. She (I think she is a woman) printed many false and potentially libelous things about people. And when that happens, I'm going to speak up. I do not think she is a decent human being by any stretch of the imagination.

[Mr. Pratfall]

Hey, what happened to 2:30 and Writer2? I liked those guys.

I enjoyed Writer2's posts. She showed that you can disagree while remaining civil.

[Kace]

Whatever happened to 2:30 and W2?

[Diplomat]

Whatever happened to 2:30 and W2?

Writer2 had mentioned something about renovating a house, so perhaps she is busy with that.

[s'news]

You implied once that dirty colons were unhappy. And you do have a tendency to shred large objects.

Outside of that, it's all good. ;)

A clean colon is a happy colon. Who can argue with that?

I don't shred any objects. I just like to watch.

[s'news]

Is s'news a woman? I thought earlier in this thread he/she/it made reference to trying to be a gentleman; that's seldom a woman's goal. Are you referring to s'news as a "she" in an attempt to ridicule? Is being a woman a negative in your world? Is this gym class bullying? I think women, in general, should be added to "Dip doesn't like" list (some of the things he used to say about 2:30 would harelip the pope).

I'm a guy, and have been for quite some time now. Those who don't know this are either not paying attention, unable to comprehend, wearing long T-shirts that would get them flagged by Rugen, or not otherwise displaying much maturity. I vote for the T-shirts.

[Produce man]

I'm a guy, and have been for quite some time now. Um, just how long is that?:whistle:

[s'news]

And by the way, Neodeity, over the years I've been admitted to a goodly number of Gentlemen's Clubs.

[Lazlo Toth]

Um, just how long is that?:whistle:

This isn't going to turn into one of those "mine's longer than yours" thinigs is it?

[Jax]

This isn't going to turn into one of those "mine's longer than yours" thinigs is it?

So which of the two requires more courage?

[Lazlo Toth]

So which of the two requires more courage?

The shorter one?

[Produce man]

This isn't going to turn into one of those "mine's longer than yours" thinigs is it?No, that only leads to grown men showng each other their junk.

(Cue Mighty Dickless)

[Sultanosurf]

Did I hear "Courage?"

http://www.ratherbiased.com/photos/dan_gun.jpg

[Tripe Face]

No, that only leads to grown men showng each other their junk.



Is that so wrong... this was my junk until my wife told me to get rid of it.

http://images.jpmagazine.com/images/154_0605_01_z+jeep_junk_parts+junk_yard.jpg

[FD2BLK]

No, that only leads to grown men showng each other their junk.

(Cue Mighty Dickless)

If that's how you like to spend your Saturday nights, that's your choice.

[Mr. Rugen]

This is a great thread. It's really informative and barely gay at all.

[FD2BLK]

This is a great thread. It's really informative and barely gay at all.

Produce does seem a bit obsessed with Dyckerson's junk doesn't he.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[Produce man]

You're just jealous because you don't have any junk.

And there's something VERY wrong about that.

[Mighty Dyckerson]

You're just jealous because you don't have any junk.

How would you know, Douche Bag??

[FD2BLK]

You're just jealous because you don't have any junk.

And there's something VERY wrong about that.


What are you, twelve? :rolleyes:

[Jax]

Is that so wrong... this was my junk until my wife told me to get rid of it.

http://images.jpmagazine.com/images/154_0605_01_z+jeep_junk_parts+junk_yard.jpg

My friend, this is not junk... This is heaven.

The wife needs to go.

[Produce man]

What are you, twelve? :rolleyes:Yes, I'm twelve. How does it feel to be dumber than a pre-teen?

[FD2BLK]

Yes, I'm twelve. How does it feel to be dumber than a pre-teen?

Even when you try to insult people you come off as being twelve. But, since we all know you're just here to tweak, it's to be expected.

[Produce man]

Even when you try to insult people you come off as being twelve. But, since we all know you're just here to tweak, it's to be expected.Yes, I'm twelve.

Feel better? :rolleyes: