Obama "Refines" Again

[From the Right]

Looks like another "refinement" of a position by Obama. This guy does more "refining" than Exxon!!!!! http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/state/epaper/2008/08/01/0801obama1.html

I guess this is an improvement on his original "energy policy" that suggested all we need to do is get our cars tuned up regularly and keep the tire pressure checked to save gas. What a suggestion, end our dependence on foreign oil by checking our tire pressure and getting regular tune-ups.

[FD2BLK]

I seem to recall another thread where you said it was admirable when McCain "refined" his position. So tell us, why is it bad when Obama "refines" his position?

[Tripe Face]

I guess this is an improvement on his original "energy policy" that suggested all we need to do is get our cars tuned up regularly and keep the tire pressure checked to save gas. What a suggestion, end our dependence on foreign oil by checking our tire pressure and getting regular tune-ups.

So THAT'S what you think Obama's energy policy is... "Checking our tire pressure and getting regular tune-ups" ???

I think, perhaps because you are a simpleton, that you have simplified his plan just a bit too much.

THIS is actually a summation of Obama's energy plan:


Barack Obama’s Plan


Fully Close the “Enron Loophole”. One of the reasons our energy market is particularly vulnerable to excessive speculation is the so-called “Enron Loophole” which prevents the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) from fully overseeing the oil futures market. As president, Barack Obama will fully close the Enron loophole by requiring that U.S. energy futures trade on regulated exchange to crack down on any excessive speculation in the energy market.
Ensure That U.S. Energy Futures Cannot be Traded on Unregulated Offshore Exchanges. Barack Obama will limit the price impacts of excessive speculation by preventing traders of U.S. crude oil from routing their transactions through off-shore markets in order to evade speculation limits and also impose reporting requirements.
Work with Other Countries to Coordinate Regulation of Oil Futures Markets. Barack Obama believes we must work with our other countries to establish uniform approaches to avoiding excessive speculation in commodities futures markets. This effort will help ensure that as the U.S. strengthens oversight and transparency in U.S. exchanges, these efforts are not undermined by overseas trading subject to lax regulations.
Call on the Federal Trade Commission and Department of Justice to Vigorously Investigate Market Manipulation in Oil Futures. Barack Obama does not believe we cannot afford to wait weeks and months more to vigorously investigate whether energy traders and oil companies manipulating the market at the expense of consumers. He is calling on the FTC to immediately expedite its investigation into market manipulation, including in the oil futures markets.Enact a Windfall Profits Tax on the Top Grossing Oil Companies and Ease the Burden on American Families: The oil industry has profited greatly—over $150 billion in 2007—due to global instability fueled by conflict in Iraq, failing domestic fiscal policies that have weakened the U.S. dollar and skyrocketing global demand resulting from a lack of investment in alternatives. Barack Obama supports imposing a windfall profits penalty on oil selling at or over $80 per barrel. Revenue from the proposal will be invested in a number of measures to reduce the burden of rising prices on families.
Require Oil Companies to Use Existing Drilling Leases: The 68 million acres of stockpiled leases have the potential to produce an additional 4.8 million barrels of oil each day. This would nearly double total U.S. oil production. The Obama plan would force oil and gas companies to either produce or pay a fee on unused federal onshore and offshore leases they are stockpiling.
End Oil and Gas Industry Tax Breaks: Obama has called for repealing the oil and gas industry tax breaks that President Bush himself has said himself are unnecessary given today’s strong market incentive for expanding exploration and production.
Cooperate with Oil Importing Nations to Reduce Demand: As new large oil importing nations come on the market, the United States is at the mercy of an ever more volatile oil market.

Reduce Carbon Emissions 80 Percent by 2050

Cap and Trade: Obama supports implementation of a market-based cap-and-trade system to reduce carbon emissions by the amount scientists say is necessary: 80 percent below 1990 levels by 2050. Obama's cap-and-trade system will require all pollution credits to be auctioned. A 100 percent auction ensures that all polluters pay for every ton of emissions they release, rather than giving these emission rights away to coal and oil companies.
Confront Deforestation and Promote Carbon Sequestration: Obama will develop domestic incentives that reward forest owners, farmers, and ranchers when they plant trees, restore grasslands, or undertake farming practices that capture carbon dioxide from the atmosphere.Invest in a Clean Energy Future

Invest $150 Billion over 10 Years in Clean Energy: Obama will invest $150 billion over 10 years to advance the next generation of biofuels and fuel infrastructure, accelerate the commercialization of plug-in hybrids, promote development of commercial-scale renewable energy, invest in low-emissions coal plants...
Double Energy Research and Development Funding: Obama will double science and research funding for clean energy projects including those that make use of our biomass, solar and wind resources.
Invest in a Skilled Clean Technologies Workforce: Obama will use proceeds from the cap-and-trade auction program to invest in job training and transition programs to help workers and industries adapt to clean technology development and production. Obama will also create an energy-focused Green Jobs Corps to connect disconnected and disadvantaged youth with job skills for a high-growth industry.
Convert our Manufacturing Centers into Clean Technology Leaders: Obama will establish a federal investment program to help manufacturing centers modernize and Americans learn the new skills they need to produce green products.
Clean Technologies Deployment Venture Capital Fund: Obama will create a Clean Technologies Venture Capital Fund to fill a critical gap in U.S. technology development. Obama will invest $10 billion per year into this fund for five years.
Require 25 Percent of Renewable Electricity by 2025: Obama will establish a 25 percent federal Renewable Portfolio Standard (RPS) to require that 25 percent of electricity consumed in the U.S. is derived from clean, sustainable energy sources, like solar, wind and geothermal by 2025.
Develop and Deploy Clean Coal Technology: Obama will significantly increase the resources devoted to the commercialization and deployment of low-carbon coal technologies. Obama will consider whatever policy tools are necessary, including standards that ban new traditional coal facilities, to ensure that we move quickly to commercialize and deploy low carbon coal technology.Support Next Generation Biofuels

Deploy Cellulosic Ethanol: Obama will invest federal resources, including tax incentives, cash prizes and government contracts into developing the most promising technologies with the goal of getting the first two billion gallons of cellulosic ethanol into the system by 2013.
Expand Locally-Owned Biofuel Refineries: Less than 10 percent of new ethanol production today is from farmer-owned refineries. New ethanol refineries help jumpstart rural economies. Obama will create a number of incentives for local communities to invest in their biofuels refineries.
Establish a National Low Carbon Fuel Standard: Barack Obama will establish a National Low Carbon Fuel Standard to speed the introduction of low-carbon non-petroleum fuels. The standard requires fuels suppliers to reduce the carbon their fuel emits by ten percent by 2020.
Increase Renewable Fuel Standard: Obama will require 36 billion gallons of renewable fuels to be included in the fuel supply by 2022 and will increase that to at least 60 billion gallons of advanced biofuels like cellulosic ethanol by 2030.Set America on Path to Oil Independence

Obama's plan will reduce oil consumption by at least 35 percent, or 10 million barrels per day, by 2030. This will more than offset the equivalent of the oil we would import from OPEC nations in 2030.

Increase Fuel Economy Standards: Obama will double fuel economy standards within 18 years. His plan will provide retooling tax credits and loan guarantees for domestic auto plants and parts manufacturers, so that they can build new fuel-efficient cars rather than overseas companies. Obama will also invest in advanced vehicle technology such as advanced lightweight materials and new engines.Improve Energy Efficiency 50 Percent by 2030

Set National Building Efficiency Goals: Barack Obama will establish a goal of making all new buildings carbon neutral, or produce zero emissions, by 2030. He'll also establish a national goal of improving new building efficiency by 50 percent and existing building efficiency by 25 percent over the next decade to help us meet the 2030 goal.
Establish a Grant Program for Early Adopters: Obama will create a competitive grant program to award those states and localities that take the first steps to implement new building codes that prioritize energy efficiency.
Invest in a Digital Smart Grid: Obama will pursue a major investment in our utility grid to enable a tremendous increase in renewable generation and accommodate modern energy requirements, such as reliability, smart metering, and distributed storageNow, even these points are just his plan "at a glance" (and some parts were removed to fit this post in the ML limits)... there are more details on each of these points on his website.

So from the right, if you have the balls, now would be a good time to apologize to us all for your remarkably moronic post.

[Bandit]

Pull quote from the linked story ...

"The Republicans and the oil companies have been really beating the drums on drilling," Obama said in the interview. "And so we don't want gridlock. We want to get something done."

So compromise is bad, and working across party lines to solve problems is something to be mocked?

I'm generally not surprised at the intellectually vacant posts that some Obama opponents come up with on here - but this one may be an have exceeded the normal bounds of nitwittery.

But have fun, if it makes you feel better. :)

[From the Right]

So THAT'S what you think Obama's energy policy is... "Checking our tire pressure and getting regular tune-ups" ???

I think, perhaps because you are a simpleton, that you have simplified his plan just a bit too much.

THIS is actually a summation of Obama's energy plan:


Barack Obama’s Plan


Fully Close the “Enron Loophole”. One of the reasons our energy market is particularly vulnerable to excessive speculation is the so-called “Enron Loophole” which prevents the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) from fully overseeing the oil futures market. As president, Barack Obama will fully close the Enron loophole by requiring that U.S. energy futures trade on regulated exchange to crack down on any excessive speculation in the energy market.
Ensure That U.S. Energy Futures Cannot be Traded on Unregulated Offshore Exchanges. Barack Obama will limit the price impacts of excessive speculation by preventing traders of U.S. crude oil from routing their transactions through off-shore markets in order to evade speculation limits and also impose reporting requirements.
Work with Other Countries to Coordinate Regulation of Oil Futures Markets. Barack Obama believes we must work with our other countries to establish uniform approaches to avoiding excessive speculation in commodities futures markets. This effort will help ensure that as the U.S. strengthens oversight and transparency in U.S. exchanges, these efforts are not undermined by overseas trading subject to lax regulations.
Call on the Federal Trade Commission and Department of Justice to Vigorously Investigate Market Manipulation in Oil Futures. Barack Obama does not believe we cannot afford to wait weeks and months more to vigorously investigate whether energy traders and oil companies manipulating the market at the expense of consumers. He is calling on the FTC to immediately expedite its investigation into market manipulation, including in the oil futures markets.Enact a Windfall Profits Tax on the Top Grossing Oil Companies and Ease the Burden on American Families: The oil industry has profited greatly—over $150 billion in 2007—due to global instability fueled by conflict in Iraq, failing domestic fiscal policies that have weakened the U.S. dollar and skyrocketing global demand resulting from a lack of investment in alternatives. Barack Obama supports imposing a windfall profits penalty on oil selling at or over $80 per barrel. Revenue from the proposal will be invested in a number of measures to reduce the burden of rising prices on families.
Require Oil Companies to Use Existing Drilling Leases: The 68 million acres of stockpiled leases have the potential to produce an additional 4.8 million barrels of oil each day. This would nearly double total U.S. oil production. The Obama plan would force oil and gas companies to either produce or pay a fee on unused federal onshore and offshore leases they are stockpiling.
End Oil and Gas Industry Tax Breaks: Obama has called for repealing the oil and gas industry tax breaks that President Bush himself has said himself are unnecessary given today’s strong market incentive for expanding exploration and production.
Cooperate with Oil Importing Nations to Reduce Demand: As new large oil importing nations come on the market, the United States is at the mercy of an ever more volatile oil market.

Reduce Carbon Emissions 80 Percent by 2050

Cap and Trade: Obama supports implementation of a market-based cap-and-trade system to reduce carbon emissions by the amount scientists say is necessary: 80 percent below 1990 levels by 2050. Obama's cap-and-trade system will require all pollution credits to be auctioned. A 100 percent auction ensures that all polluters pay for every ton of emissions they release, rather than giving these emission rights away to coal and oil companies.
Confront Deforestation and Promote Carbon Sequestration: Obama will develop domestic incentives that reward forest owners, farmers, and ranchers when they plant trees, restore grasslands, or undertake farming practices that capture carbon dioxide from the atmosphere.Invest in a Clean Energy Future

Invest $150 Billion over 10 Years in Clean Energy: Obama will invest $150 billion over 10 years to advance the next generation of biofuels and fuel infrastructure, accelerate the commercialization of plug-in hybrids, promote development of commercial-scale renewable energy, invest in low-emissions coal plants...
Double Energy Research and Development Funding: Obama will double science and research funding for clean energy projects including those that make use of our biomass, solar and wind resources.
Invest in a Skilled Clean Technologies Workforce: Obama will use proceeds from the cap-and-trade auction program to invest in job training and transition programs to help workers and industries adapt to clean technology development and production. Obama will also create an energy-focused Green Jobs Corps to connect disconnected and disadvantaged youth with job skills for a high-growth industry.
Convert our Manufacturing Centers into Clean Technology Leaders: Obama will establish a federal investment program to help manufacturing centers modernize and Americans learn the new skills they need to produce green products.
Clean Technologies Deployment Venture Capital Fund: Obama will create a Clean Technologies Venture Capital Fund to fill a critical gap in U.S. technology development. Obama will invest $10 billion per year into this fund for five years.
Require 25 Percent of Renewable Electricity by 2025: Obama will establish a 25 percent federal Renewable Portfolio Standard (RPS) to require that 25 percent of electricity consumed in the U.S. is derived from clean, sustainable energy sources, like solar, wind and geothermal by 2025.
Develop and Deploy Clean Coal Technology: Obama will significantly increase the resources devoted to the commercialization and deployment of low-carbon coal technologies. Obama will consider whatever policy tools are necessary, including standards that ban new traditional coal facilities, to ensure that we move quickly to commercialize and deploy low carbon coal technology.Support Next Generation Biofuels

Deploy Cellulosic Ethanol: Obama will invest federal resources, including tax incentives, cash prizes and government contracts into developing the most promising technologies with the goal of getting the first two billion gallons of cellulosic ethanol into the system by 2013.
Expand Locally-Owned Biofuel Refineries: Less than 10 percent of new ethanol production today is from farmer-owned refineries. New ethanol refineries help jumpstart rural economies. Obama will create a number of incentives for local communities to invest in their biofuels refineries.
Establish a National Low Carbon Fuel Standard: Barack Obama will establish a National Low Carbon Fuel Standard to speed the introduction of low-carbon non-petroleum fuels. The standard requires fuels suppliers to reduce the carbon their fuel emits by ten percent by 2020.
Increase Renewable Fuel Standard: Obama will require 36 billion gallons of renewable fuels to be included in the fuel supply by 2022 and will increase that to at least 60 billion gallons of advanced biofuels like cellulosic ethanol by 2030.Set America on Path to Oil Independence

Obama's plan will reduce oil consumption by at least 35 percent, or 10 million barrels per day, by 2030. This will more than offset the equivalent of the oil we would import from OPEC nations in 2030.

Increase Fuel Economy Standards: Obama will double fuel economy standards within 18 years. His plan will provide retooling tax credits and loan guarantees for domestic auto plants and parts manufacturers, so that they can build new fuel-efficient cars rather than overseas companies. Obama will also invest in advanced vehicle technology such as advanced lightweight materials and new engines.Improve Energy Efficiency 50 Percent by 2030

Set National Building Efficiency Goals: Barack Obama will establish a goal of making all new buildings carbon neutral, or produce zero emissions, by 2030. He'll also establish a national goal of improving new building efficiency by 50 percent and existing building efficiency by 25 percent over the next decade to help us meet the 2030 goal.
Establish a Grant Program for Early Adopters: Obama will create a competitive grant program to award those states and localities that take the first steps to implement new building codes that prioritize energy efficiency.
Invest in a Digital Smart Grid: Obama will pursue a major investment in our utility grid to enable a tremendous increase in renewable generation and accommodate modern energy requirements, such as reliability, smart metering, and distributed storageNow, even these points are just his plan "at a glance" (and some parts were removed to fit this post in the ML limits)... there are more details on each of these points on his website.

So from the right, if you have the balls, now would be a good time to apologize to us all for your remarkably moronic post.

I'm just telling you what he said....he said if we check our tire pressure and get regular tune-ups there would be no need drill for any more oil. He said it not me.....I think you've mixed up your "simpletons."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4L29yBMay5o

[Pro]

Obama hasn't changed his views. He still opposes, on matter of principle, offshore oil drilling.

He IS acknowledging that governing involves comprimise. If he is presented a bill that contains enough of the things that he is advocating on energy policy, but also allows some limited drilling, he'd sign it.

ALL Presidents have done similar things - agreed to accept things they don't like in order to get the things they DO like. President Bush did just that this past week with the housing bill. Presidents Clinton, George H.W. Bush, Reagan, Ford and Nixon all did similar things. Unfortunately, President Carter wasn't interested in comprimise, and we know where that led.

It seems that we want our Presidential candidates to be dogmatic and rigid. I suppose it makes it easier; we don't have to determine what level of comprimise we, as voters, would or would not approve of. Obama is showing how he'd govern, which is unusal in Presidential campaigns.

[Lazlo Toth]

Good for him. If it means we'll do more rather than less in the eenrgy area, I'm all for it. And I'm glad to see the group of ten emerging in the Senate. I hope they can talk some sense into the rest of those knuckleheads.

[Pro]

I think an appropriate question to ask of John McCain would be if he would sign a bill allowing more offshore drilling, but also had a windfall profits tax on oil companies.

[Lazlo Toth]

Agreed. And throw in drilling in ANWR in the bill.

[Pro]

The point is there are almost no "clean" bills passed by Congress anymore. No major piece of legislation is "black or white". Yet, Americans want - even demand - their issues be black or white. Meaning absolute, one way or another. And that just doesn't happen. Presidents can't pick and choose what parts of packages they'll sign or veto.

[Lazlo Toth]

So put it all in there. But don't let them add any pork barrel projects to it.

[Pro]

So put it all in there. But don't let them add any pork barrel projects to it.

How are you going to stop it?

[Lazlo Toth]

How are you going to stop it?

I'm not. That's up to the leadership.

[s'news]

Gol' darnit. You two seemed well on your way to a general agreement.

[Lazlo Toth]

We just need a bipartisan compromise and enough votes to override the veto.

[s'news]

We just need a bipartisan compromise and enough votes to override the veto.

Seems achievable. But Obama is saying that if the right deal is reached, there's no need to worry about a veto. He's put offshore drilling in play, if he's president, to the annoyance of those who don't want it be even get on the table.

He's either pissing on some base supporters, moving to a centrist position, realizing which way the wind is blowing, shrewdly keeping in mind that Democrats are going to be controlling things, and/or other stuff like that.

[Pro]

Obama NEVER said "over my dead body" (political or otherwise) on offshore drilling. Just that he does not think it will achieve its intended goals. So don't expect his Administration to push for it. But he never said it was, ipso facto, a "dealbreaker", should it be included in a package that Congress passes.

[s'news]

I'm willing to be educated on that, but I don't think he's previously said that he'd consider signing on to offshore drilling.

[Pro]

I'm willing to be educated on that, but I don't think he's previously said that he'd consider signing on to offshore drilling.

Nor did he say that any bill sent to him containing it would automatically be DOA.

[s'news]

Some folks thought that was his point of view.

And thus, they call it news.

[Tripe Face]

I'm just telling you what he said....he said if we check our tire pressure and get regular tune-ups there would be no need drill for any more oil. He said it not me.....I think you've mixed up your "simpletons."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4L29yBMay5o

Watch AGAIN... he didn't say we'd never have to drill again. He said that taking those steps would save us as much oil as we'd get from the drilling they are proposing. Which, from everything I've read about our off shore oil reserves which are not currently being exploited sounds about right.

[Pro]

Some folks thought that was his point of view.

And some folks think he's a Muslim.

[Lazlo Toth]

Obama is saying that if the right deal is reached, there's no need to worry about a veto.

There is still the possibility that won't be his choice to make. In which case, enough votes to override might be necessary.

[Pro]

There is still the possibility that won't be his choice to make. In which case, enough votes to override might be necessary.

Are you aware what the political division of the next Congress is projected to be?

[Jax]

If he drills, he's going to owe the ocean reparations.

[Lazlo Toth]

Are you aware what the political division of the next Congress is projected to be?
Yes. I am.

[Pro]

Just in case someone isn't:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/02/dems.senate/index.html