Computer Crash

[Stormtracker_Tony]

Unfortunately, I became victim to a computer crash last week..Looking for some thoughts..

First, the story...We had a bad thunderstorm approaching last week with excessive cloud to ground lightning...I figured that I needed to unplug the computer..I shut down exactly like I do every day. Then unplugged it....The storm passed and about an hour later I plugged it back up....Hit the power button---and nothing...No windows or BIOS screens or anything...No PC fan running, no system lights...Just nothing--like it was still unplugged from the wall and getting no power...I figured the power supply had went bad..Got a new power supply and hooked it up...Same story, no lights or anything as if it were still unplugged from the wall...When taking it apart, I plugged it up and noticed a small green light would cut on in the motherboard like it was getting power there---but from the outside, it's all dead...I'm assuming now that it's probably a bad motherboard? Wouldn't be surprised if the hard drive is gone, too...

I try to back up the hard drive every 2 weeks or so and most of my files are safe...but still any work I've done over the past 2 weeks, I don't have...Plus I need some codes off of the registry to make some of my software work on another computer (that I unfortunately don't have backed up)..

Given that the computer is about 4 years old and getting outdated on technology, I don't see the need in getting a new motherboard and whatever else it would need...This is a desktop computer, for the record..I think there's a chance that the hard drive is still good....The most recent computer I have is a laptop and I don't see how I could add this old hard drive to the laptop as a slave?

I've got XP as the operating system for the computer that crashed..I do have some older desktops (one from the late 90s with Windows 98 and another with Windows ME)...I got the windows ME machine, took out it's hard drive and replaced it with the newer (possibly crashed) hard drive hoping it would fire up that way...but all I could get was an "operating system not found"....So the only way I can think of that would possibly work would be adding it to one of those older machines as a slave...I've never done this before and don't know if it would even be possible to add it as a slave to those old computers?

In short, I'm looking for some advice about any or all of this that you could help with....Any ideas what may have happened to the system...and possible ways I could go about extracting the data from that hard drive through another computer...Anything help you've got is much appreciated!

[TVShootist]

If it is a dell, try discharging the motherboard. To do this, unplug the computer from the wall and then hold on the power button for a solid 20 seconds. Plug the computer back in and try turning it back on. If that doesn't work, the next thing I would look at would be the CPU. Not sure how familiar you are with the computers internal components, but sometimes simply reseating the CPU in the socket will do the trick. Also use a light to see if any of the capacitors are bulging or leaking.

Also note that even though the motherboard has a light it still could be a bad power supply.

[vuphinder]

I was having trouble with my Dell laptop slowing down...the quick fix seems to be working. Thanks!

[Jax]

Here's the good news: I doubt it's your hard drive. If your hard drive took a dump you'd still be able to boot up to the BIOS.

You're power supply thought was valid, but after reading that you've replaced it to no avail, I'm now leaning towards the motherboard.

How old is the computer?

Here's what I'd do -- crack open the case and make sure all of your connections are properly seated (power supply, RAM, HDD's CPU, etc.) From there, find out your motherboard model. Download the manual and find out where your power and reset switches connect to the board and make sure they're all connected properly. It might be something as simple as a bad switch...

If all of this fails, I'd say you've got a bad board. I doubt it's a processor because (I believe) a computer will still boot to BIOS without a CPU attached. I could be wrong tho...

[Stormtracker_Tony]

I bought the computer new in either late 2004 or early 2005...somewhere around that time frame...

The machine is not very "up to date" (ie. has been needing a processor upgrade, ram upgrade, graphics card update, etc..) so it's not really worth putting much money into it to fix it considering for $300-$400 bucks I can get a new computer that's already got all the latest upgrades...

I'm more or less looking for a cheap solution of backing up the files that were on the hard drive (if it's not damaged) and putting that computer into retirement...From what folks are telling me, the cheapest method would be to slave that hard drive to another desktop computer (but I don't know if I can considering my other desktops are about 10 years old---don't know if they even have the power and capability of running 2 hard drives)....and the next cheapest option I'm getting is to buy an external USB enclosure and install it into that (using the hard drive as an external drive)....That method looks to involve putting at least 20 bucks or more...I hate to put that much into it if I could slave it to those older computers for free

[Mighty Dyckerson]

If your hard drive took a dump you'd still be able to boot up to the BIOS.


If my hard drive ever takes a dump, it better not forget to flush! Am I right people??!?!

[Roy Hobbs]

If my hard drive ever takes a dump, it better not forget to flush! Am I right people??!?!

You may be right, but you're never funny.

[Mighty Dyckerson]

You may be right, but you're never funny.

Like you'd know, Ralphie.

[Jax]

I'm more or less looking for a cheap solution of backing up the files that were on the hard drive (if it's not damaged) and putting that computer into retirement...From what folks are telling me, the cheapest method would be to slave that hard drive to another desktop computer (but I don't know if I can considering my other desktops are about 10 years old---don't know if they even have the power and capability of running 2 hard drives)....

It's pretty easy to add that drive to the older computer.

Here's how -- pop out the hard drive from your broken computer and the hard drive from the older computer.

On the back of the hard drives are jumpers that look like this:

http://www.infohq.com/Computer/CompGraphics/MaxtorPics/CopyofJumperCloseup.jpg

If you look at the top of your hard drives, you should see a guide that'll tell you where the jumper pins need to be to make your hard drives master and slave. On the hard drive that's in the older computer, arrange the pins to be a master with slave. On the hard drive that's in the broken computer, arrange the pins to be slave.

Put the drives in the older computer and boot.

Go into the BIOS settings and add the drive to the system and boot.

You should see the second drive at that point. If not, make sure your jumper pins are set correctly. If this fails, the USB box might be the way to go.

Let me know if you need more help.

[Stormtracker_Tony]

ok, I've tried this on an Windows ME machine as a slave...I loaded on windows like normal, but the drive is not showing up in "my computer".....So I restarted and went into BIOS.....under the "main" section in the BIOS Setup Utility, it's got system time/date...

diskette A: (1.44/1.25 MB 3 1/2) ------obviously the floppy drive

Diskette B: (Disabled)

Primary Master: (20020MB) ----this is the 20 gig hard drive that I booted up on; the main hard drive for this computer...

Primary Slave: (80026MB) -----This is the 80 gig hard drive that I've just installed that came out of the broken computer

Secondary Master (CD-ROM)

Secondary Slave (None)

etc........

I'm not sure where to go from here...It's obviously seeing the primary slave...I just don't know how to make it show up on windows when I go to My Computer...

[Jax]

ok, I've tried this on an Windows ME machine as a slave...I loaded on windows like normal, but the drive is not showing up in "my computer".....So I restarted and went into BIOS.....under the "main" section in the BIOS Setup Utility, it's got system time/date...

diskette A: (1.44/1.25 MB 3 1/2) ------obviously the floppy drive

Diskette B: (Disabled)

Primary Master: (20020MB) ----this is the 20 gig hard drive that I booted up on; the main hard drive for this computer...

Primary Slave: (80026MB) -----This is the 80 gig hard drive that I've just installed that came out of the broken computer

Secondary Master (CD-ROM)

Secondary Slave (None)

etc........

I'm not sure where to go from here...It's obviously seeing the primary slave...I just don't know how to make it show up on windows when I go to My Computer...

After you went into the BIOS did you save the setting and then reboot and check out My Computer?

There may be some issue with an XP HDD's ability to talk to ME. Let me do a little research.

[Stormtracker_Tony]

After you went into the BIOS did you save the setting and then reboot and check out My Computer?

There may be some issue with an XP HDD's ability to talk to ME. Let me do a little research.

Yeah, I clicked the "save and exit"...I didn't see anything that should be edited, so it shouldn't have been any changes to save?

[Banned_Forever]

If the drive is compatible, and it's showing up?

You should be able to find it under the My Computer Icon,
or in the Device Manager to see if there are any conflicts,
and that the device is working properly.

The drive being newly introduced to the system should have
been auto-detected by the add new hardware wizard, and prompted
you for any software drivers, etc.

I believe the Me was still on FAT32, but you can internet search for
all of the questions you are asking here.

Google knows someone who's had the exact same problem as you.

[Stormtracker_Tony]

Google knows someone who's had the exact same problem as you.

oh trust me, I've been googling every bit of this...It's answered about a hundred other questions...the few questions I'm posting here are the ones where I've had no luck with google...

The add new hardware thing never showed up...I tried to run it manually but it did not find anything...I can't seem to be able to assign a drive letter to the slave or anything..the BIOS is showing the drive but in windows it's like it's nonexistent :doh:

[Produce man]

You may be right, but you're never funny.God, Mighty Dickless' sense of humor seems to get lower as he progresses through puberty...

[Mighty Dyckerson]

God, Mighty Dickless' sense of humor seems to get lower as he progresses through puberty...

Your white sheet just came back from the cleaners. Better hurry up and put it on, or you'll be late for your cross burning.

[TVMattNYC]

Given that the computer is about 4 years old and getting outdated on technology ...

Ah. Another non-Mac.

When will people learn?

[sonorandesert]

Stormtracker, is this an Emachine you are (were) using?

If so, they have a terrible track record for the last few years of the power supply dying and taking the motherboard with it.

My daughter-in-law used one in her job.
Her computer did the exact same thing.
She shut it down, went home and the next AM it died.

I will post the links if you were using an Emachine.
In short, you're screwed.

Ah. Another non-Mac.
When will people learn?

I use Compaq and swear by Compaq ("Comcrap")...they've changed.
Never EVER a problem.

If the poster was talking Emachine, then you might have a case (still too many variables).

[Zeke]

The reason your "possibly dead" hard drive is not visible in Windows ME is because Windows ME does not support NTFS partitions. Only FAT32 and FAT16. You will need at least Windows 2000 for that drive to be mountable as a slave.

What you can try is a BartPE boot CD which will load a bare-bones Windows-like environment that will read NTFS and allow you to move files from that drive to another.

[Stormtracker_Tony]

Stormtracker, is this an Emachine you are (were) using?

You guessed it! :frustrated: Learned my lesson...Had a relative that also had the very same issue with an emachine a year or so ago...That's why I've been backing up the hard drive frequently because I had a feeling it could happen to me, too.....If you have any links, please share..Emachines needs a good lawsuit for selling those pieces of crap...Yeah they're cheaper, but hell it doesn't matter if it's sold for 50 cents--a product should not be defective and if this is as widespread of a problem, then emachines obviously needs to make amends...Waranty should cover unexpected and rare malfunctions---A widespread defect like this should be covered by a recall/free replacement parts....


The reason your "possibly dead" hard drive is not visible in Windows ME is because Windows ME does not support NTFS partitions. Only FAT32 and FAT16. You will need at least Windows 2000 for that drive to be mountable as a slave.

So I learned after spending several hours fighting with it! :frustrated: I eventually hooked up an external hard drive that I had (also NTFS format) to that Windows ME computer and when it did the same thing as this slave drive, I figured that ME just couldn't read NTFS format...

So looks like now I'm down to either installing in an external enclosure----or just buying a new computer and installing it as a slave in there (which may be the best deal considering I could use a good desktop now)....Most of the new ones have Vista installed, which I'd much rather have XP as I'm more familiar with it and assume that it would be more compatible with copying over registry keys

[Zeke]

You guessed it! :frustrated: Learned my lesson...Had a relative that also had the very same issue with an emachine a year or so ago...That's why I've been backing up the hard drive frequently because I had a feeling it could happen to me, too.....If you have any links, please share..Emachines needs a good lawsuit for selling those pieces of crap...Yeah they're cheaper, but hell it doesn't matter if it's sold for 50 cents--a product should not be defective and if this is as widespread of a problem, then emachines obviously needs to make amends...Waranty should cover unexpected and rare malfunctions---A widespread defect like this should be covered by a recall/free replacement parts....

You've already said this problem occurred after a lot of lightning came through. Perhaps some other route of electrical delivery (besides the power cord... perhaps an Ethernet cable, phone line.... or dare I go so far as say "St. Elmo's Fire") got to the motherboard and caused things to go foul. Or it could have just been a coincidence. I'm sure the thing came with a warranty of some sort which has probably expired by now. Your only other hope might have been an extended service agreement with the vendor. I wouldn't fret about it too much (PM me if you'd like me to build you a new custom system for less than $300).


So I learned after spending several hours fighting with it! :frustrated: I eventually hooked up an external hard drive that I had (also NTFS format) to that Windows ME computer and when it did the same thing as this slave drive, I figured that ME just couldn't read NTFS format...

So looks like now I'm down to either installing in an external enclosure----or just buying a new computer and installing it as a slave in there (which may be the best deal considering I could use a good desktop now)....Most of the new ones have Vista installed, which I'd much rather have XP as I'm more familiar with it and assume that it would be more compatible with copying over registry keys
I mentioned trying BartPE earlier as a way of getting your data off the drive without the need for Windows 2000. BartPE is a bootable CD that you create and burn. The utility to create it is a very small download, which requires the use of a Windows XP install CD to create the BartPE CD. Once burned, you'll boot from it and it will bring up an interface that looks like this:

http://images.snapfiles.com/screenfiles/bartpe2.jpg

It essentially loads a skeleton copy of Windows with a small set of useful utilities, such as chkdsk, a file manager, and some other stuff. It supports networking, as well as mounting external drives (including USB thumb drives). So... If you can find a computer with a burner somewhere (perhaps make a phone call to a friend who has one), and a Windows XP CD, you can create this disk, put it into your Windows ME machine, and copy off the data you need... Though this, of course, is something you'll probably only want to do if you don't feel like spending a few hundred dollars on a new machine. You can download the BartPE disc building utility from here: http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/

[11-Evil]

You guessed it! :frustrated: Learned my lesson...Had a relative that also had the very same issue with an emachine a year or so ago...That's why I've been backing up the hard drive frequently because I had a feeling it could happen to me, too.....If you have any links, please share..Emachines needs a good lawsuit for selling those pieces of crap...Yeah they're cheaper, but hell it doesn't matter if it's sold for 50 cents--a product should not be defective and if this is as widespread of a problem, then emachines obviously needs to make amends...Waranty should cover unexpected and rare malfunctions---A widespread defect like this should be covered by a recall/free replacement parts....




So I learned after spending several hours fighting with it! :frustrated: I eventually hooked up an external hard drive that I had (also NTFS format) to that Windows ME computer and when it did the same thing as this slave drive, I figured that ME just couldn't read NTFS format...

So looks like now I'm down to either installing in an external enclosure----or just buying a new computer and installing it as a slave in there (which may be the best deal considering I could use a good desktop now)....Most of the new ones have Vista installed, which I'd much rather have XP as I'm more familiar with it and assume that it would be more compatible with copying over registry keys

You will have another problem trying to put this HD in a new computer as a slave. Most new computers have switched to all SATA cables. I am assuming your old HD is an IDE cable. You will still need to put it in an external box and use USB to recover any files.

They do sell a "connector" that converts your IDE drive to SATA - but the one I bought didnt work (but I was trying it on a DVD burner)

[Roy Hobbs]

I'd place a remote splicing unit near the trunking cable and then set it off at the first sign of trouble while there's still time to do the burn manually.
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/stills/2010_Scheider.flv.jpg

[Zeke]

You will have another problem trying to put this HD in a new computer as a slave. Most new computers have switched to all SATA cables. I am assuming your old HD is an IDE cable. You will still need to put it in an external box and use USB to recover any files.

They do sell a "connector" that converts your IDE drive to SATA - but the one I bought didnt work (but I was trying it on a DVD burner)
I don't think that will be a problem. Every new system I've built this year had both SATA and at least ONE IDE channel connector on it for reverse compatibility with older devices. All you have to do is ask about this before buying a PC. Both interfaces will work along side each other just fine. Not everybody has an SATA DVD drive in their computer... more often than not, it's still IDE. I've built many with both types in use.

[Banned_Forever]

Emachines needs a good lawsuit for selling those pieces of crap...

Yeah they're cheaper, but hell it doesn't matter if it's sold for 50 cents--a product should not be defective and if this is as widespread of a problem, then emachines obviously needs to make amends...Waranty should cover unexpected and rare malfunctions---A widespread defect like this should be covered by a recall/free replacement parts....


You said this Machine was 4 years old?


Most complex electronic components will fail depending on usage in the
3 to 5 year window of service.

How do you think the Battlefield of a Technological Advanced Army is
feeling right about now? In it's 7th year of deployment?

Especially knowing that contractors have a track record of selling items
at Mac prices with E-Machine quality parts?

That coupled with the unfriendly environment of combat, heat, sand
and wind? And ...the failure rate of that equipment's functionality should
be quite high right about now. Actually failing at a rate faster than the
equipment is being replaced.

What kind of War would you have on your hands then?

[sonorandesert]

It appears that any class action petitions brought against eMachines have been settled.
I offer these threads for general information only.


This makes for some great readin'.
Stay clear of eMachines.
http://emachines.pissedconsumer.com/

http://www.geek.com/forums/topic.php?id=33947&page

https://cert.gardencitygroup.com/eml/fs/claim

http://www.fixya.com/support/t338161-motherboard_taken_out_emachines_bestec

http://www.techspot.com/vb/all/windows/t-65978-Emachine-problem.html

[Zeke]

From my own personal experience with eMachines.... all that I can say is, whatever kind of DVD drive it was they included with some older systems (say, 3 years ago) they would stop functioning after about 10 minutes of continuous spinning and require you to shut down. This made installing (or reinstalling) and OS a reall pain in the ass. Otherwise... I've not seen any other major hardware problems with them beyond what you would normally expect from a PC that old.

[Stormtracker_Tony]

You've already said this problem occurred after a lot of lightning came through. Perhaps some other route of electrical delivery (besides the power cord... perhaps an Ethernet cable, phone line.... or dare I go so far as say "St. Elmo's Fire") got to the motherboard and caused things to go foul. Or it could have just been a coincidence. I'm sure the thing came with a warranty of some sort which has probably expired by now. Your only other hope might have been an extended service agreement with the vendor. I wouldn't fret about it too much (PM me if you'd like me to build you a new custom system for less than $300).


I mentioned trying BartPE earlier as a way of getting your data off the drive without the need for Windows 2000. BartPE is a bootable CD that you create and burn. The utility to create it is a very small download, which requires the use of a Windows XP install CD to create the BartPE CD. Once burned, you'll boot from it and it will bring up an interface that looks like this:

http://images.snapfiles.com/screenfiles/bartpe2.jpg

It essentially loads a skeleton copy of Windows with a small set of useful utilities, such as chkdsk, a file manager, and some other stuff. It supports networking, as well as mounting external drives (including USB thumb drives). So... If you can find a computer with a burner somewhere (perhaps make a phone call to a friend who has one), and a Windows XP CD, you can create this disk, put it into your Windows ME machine, and copy off the data you need... Though this, of course, is something you'll probably only want to do if you don't feel like spending a few hundred dollars on a new machine. You can download the BartPE disc building utility from here: http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/

Yeah, I looked into the BartPE...The problem I saw there was I don't have a Windows XP cd..and don't know where I could find one at a cheaper price than the 20 bucks or so that I'd pay for the external enclosure...If I had an XP cd already, then that would be a great option to try...All I've got is a "system restore" cd that installs the operating system as well as all the other crap that came with the computer...I assume that I'd need an XP cd and not just a system restore cd that has XP built into it?

At some point, I really need to get a new computer because the laptop that I'm on now is definitely not up to speed...I may be able to consider having you build one for me at some point...You say less than $300, but Perhaps you may be thinking of just a basic web surfing computer? I need something that can handle a lot of video streaming/editing as well as 3d applications....So I'm looking (at the bare minimum) for about a 3Ghz dual core processor, at least 2 gigs of RAM, decent graphics card and a windows operating system already installed....About the cheapest I've been able to find at local stores that fits this category is around $400 for an ACER brand...These are also new parts that come with a warranty...If you could put something together of that quality for much cheaper than the $400, then let me know