Do women move up in TV quicker?

[Write2Video]

This thread is not meant to bait nor offend anyone (seriously). But we all know how hard it is to advance as a reporter in the TV business. Whenever I have this discussion with others in the business, they usually agree that female reporters seem to move up faster in the business than male reporters. ESPECIALLY when it comes to African American women. Agree or disagree, and why?

[TVNewsSpy]

This thread is not meant to bait nor offend anyone (seriously). But we all know how hard it is to advance as a reporter in the TV business. Whenever I have this discussion with others in the business, they usually agree that female reporters seem to move up faster in the business than male reporters. ESPECIALLY when it comes to African American women. Agree or disagree, and why?

Depends. Assuming the talent level is the same...

I think a 22 year old male will move up slower than a 22 year old female. But if a 30 year old man and a 22 year old female start reporting at the same time, then I'd say either/or.

Viewers, or maybe News Directors, don't want to hire a male who looks too young, too "baby-faced." But with females, youth is generally a plus.

[Write2Video]

Viewers, or maybe News Directors, don't want to hire a male who looks too young, too "baby-faced." But with females, youth is generally a plus.

Exactly my point. Lets say a male and female graduate from college at the same time, and like you said, their talent level is the same. A lot of guys look like they're still going through puberty in their early 20's. But, all a woman in her early 20s has to do is dress up and put on makeup and she automatically looks older and more mature. And like you also said, young women are more of a hot commodity anyway. Young African American women are really a plus, because with them the newsroom gets two minorities in one (Sorry, but that's just the truth).

[New Majority]

Go to the websites of the top ten markets and simply do the math. Then go to the websites of 170-179 (random choice). What you will discover is that the answer to your question is no. White men and white women dominate still.

[Write2Video]

Go to the websites of the top ten markets and simply do the math. Then go to the websites of 170-179 (random choice). What you will discover is that the answer to your question is no. White men and white women dominate still.

Of course White men and White women "dominate"; they're the majority. That's why when a good (competent) "minority" reporter candidate comes along, many NDs jump at the chance to hire them in an effort to diversify their newsrooms.

My question was about female reporters versus male reporters: Assuming the talent level is equal, who has it easier when it comes to chances to move up in the TV business? Having already established that female reporters typically move up faster in the business than their male counterparts, it's only logical that African American, Hispanic, Asian etc. female reporters have an even greater chance at upward mobility. Why? Because they fill a double minority role. That may sound bad, but it's the reality in TV News as well as the rest of corporate America.

I picked African American female reporters as the group that seems most likely to move up quickly, because they constitute the largest double minority in the business. If you really pay attention to market size and local TV News websites, you'll see more attractive, young African American women making huge jumps from their first jobs in the 140s (if not lower) all the way to jobs in top 50 to top 25 markets, with no extra stops to pay dues in between.

Since TV is a visual medium, it's probably one of the very few businesses in which managment can discriminate that blatantly and actually get away with it.

[kmfdmatt]

There are some unfortunate truths in this thread, but isn't the new business model for whomever is passable in their work and appearance and will take a low-balled salary to move up more quickly these days?

[Write2Video]

isn't the new business model for whomever is passable in their work and appearance and will take a low-balled salary to move up more quickly these days?

For most part, yes. But, there are so many young people in this business nowadays who are anxious to work for crumbs just to move up that NDs still have a diverse pool of fools...I mean candidates...to choose from.

[overthehill]

Reality is that there are more women seeking jobs in our industry...more women in college journ programs--about 75% are female. Heck look around your newsroom, look on most station websites at the news team bios. Female talent dominates male talent with the exception of sports.

Statistically, the numbers work against males. You're simply outnumbered. I haven't been a ND for about eight years, but I'd imagine the ratio of female reporter/anchor resume DVD-tapes still is much higher than male resume videos. Given that, say 7 out of 10 applicants is female, a male is at a statistical disadvantage.

However, all of this CAN be a positive for a male job seeker. If you're good, if your resume video looks good, you can be the exception to the rule/statistics. You can standout, if you're outstanding.

Lastly, face facts. Prettier people will find jobs more quickly in TV than those who have a face for radio. There is research backing up the pretty people find jobs faster statement. If you're at the wrong end of the face-spectrum, no matter your skill level, sorry Charlie (why am I hungry for tuna now?) :)

PS--an attractive, competent minority (esp female) WILL move faster because demand is greater for faces with diversity--Asian, Hispanic, African American, Indian, other ethnicities.

[Another side]

Exactly my point. Lets say a male and female graduate from college at the same time, and like you said, their talent level is the same. A lot of guys look like they're still going through puberty in their early 20's.

"Look like"????

A lot of guys ARE still going through puberty in their early 20s. I damned sure was.

Many of them -- this is a fact -- are so immature that when they get passed over for a promotion or that job they thought they deserved, rather than working on their skills and resume, they default to blaming it on allegedly less-competent women and minorites.

Of course, if I'm doing the hiring and I get a white male applicant and a minority of ether sex, equally competent, I'm going with the minority -- there's nothing wrong with diversity in the newsroom and no reason to apologize for striving for it.

I was never big on "hot" when it came to hiring women (and I don't recognize it in males); I always wanted "pleasant" or "the-girl-next-door" look.

As a one-time newspaper publisher, though, I was real big on "hot" for the sales staff.

[New Majority]

Of course White men and White women "dominate"; they're the majority. That's why when a good (competent) "minority" reporter candidate comes along, many NDs jump at the chance to hire them in an effort to diversify their newsrooms.

My question was about female reporters versus male reporters: Assuming the talent level is equal, who has it easier when it comes to chances to move up in the TV business? Having already established that female reporters typically move up faster in the business than their male counterparts, it's only logical that African American, Hispanic, Asian etc. female reporters have an even greater chance at upward mobility. Why? Because they fill a double minority role. That may sound bad, but it's the reality in TV News as well as the rest of corporate America.

I picked African American female reporters as the group that seems most likely to move up quickly, because they constitute the largest double minority in the business. If you really pay attention to market size and local TV News websites, you'll see more attractive, young African American women making huge jumps from their first jobs in the 140s (if not lower) all the way to jobs in top 50 to top 25 markets, with no extra stops to pay dues in between.

Since TV is a visual medium, it's probably one of the very few businesses in which managment can discriminate that blatantly and actually get away with it.

I don't understand your point. One or two Black reporters in a news room compared to 16 whites proves that a "competent" Black reporter will move up quicker?

Maybe there would be more Black reporters in news rooms if not for the amount of incompetent White Affirmative Action reporters.

[Another side]

Maybe there would be more Black reporters in news rooms if not for the amount of incompetent White Affirmative Action reporters.

I don't think I understand your point. Or why you're capitalizing "white" and "black."

[wxcookie]

I cannot believe what I have just read from any of you. I am an African-American female and I have not had it easy in this business. African-Americans still have to work twice as hard as whites I don't care where you live, don’t believe me
HERE'S A TEST TO PROVE I AM RIGHT!
If you are in the South (sorry for you northerners) walk up to an Southern African-American and have a conversation, I bet you will detect a person trying to HIDE a southern accent by over enunciating words or that person is from the north.
Now walk up to a southern white person........ They may sound like Jeff Foxworthy with the deepest and thickest accent, do you really think that an African American would survive with the same speech and diction.
BY THE WAY THIS TEST CAN BE PERFORMED IN ANY OFFICE IN THE SOUTH.
I can give this test because I lived it, and no I did not advance quickly in the news room, and when I did advance it was because I worked hard for it.
I have been passed over many times for young, cute, cheap labor and it usually had blonde hair and blue eyes.

[The Mockingbird]

I understand that these days, among some employers, logical sentence and paragraph construction are almost as highly prized as skin color.

[wx or not]

I have been passed over many times for young, cute, cheap labor and it usually had blonde hair and blue eyes.
There's your answer!!! Go get yourself a wig and some contacts!!!;)

[wxcookie]

I'll pass..
THANKS
P.S. Could you pass on the names of the companies that are promoting African-American women fasters than others...
I's like to give them a (wx) cookie

THANKS..
And as for the wig and contacts....I'll let all the makeup wearing men in this business have that..........

[Another OMB]

I don't think there's any disputing the fact that women move up in this business faster than men, for the reasons already stated in previous posts. Just look at any of the networks; you see lots of women anchors and reporters in their late 20s and early 30s. How many male anchors and reporters do you see that young?

BUT...while women may have an advantage on the front end, moving up sooner, they have a disadvantage on the back end. I think it's changing to a certain extent, but usually women anchors aren't "allowed" to age on-air as men are. In general, male anchors that are older are seen as more experienced and worldly, while females too often are judged mostly on looks.

So while they may move up faster, the length of their career might also be shorter.

[TVNewsSpy]

I cannot believe what I have just read from any of you. I am an African-American female and I have not had it easy in this business. African-Americans still have to work twice as hard as whites I don't care where you live, don’t believe me
HERE'S A TEST TO PROVE I AM RIGHT!
If you are in the South (sorry for you northerners) walk up to an Southern African-American and have a conversation, I bet you will detect a person trying to HIDE a southern accent by over enunciating words or that person is from the north.
Now walk up to a southern white person........ They may sound like Jeff Foxworthy with the deepest and thickest accent, do you really think that an African American would survive with the same speech and diction.
BY THE WAY THIS TEST CAN BE PERFORMED IN ANY OFFICE IN THE SOUTH.
I can give this test because I lived it, and no I did not advance quickly in the news room, and when I did advance it was because I worked hard for it.
I have been passed over many times for young, cute, cheap labor and it usually had blonde hair and blue eyes.

Your post doesn't make much sense... but I can assure you a thick Southern accent doesn't work on air regardless of skin color.

[gdiamante]

Reality is that there are more women seeking jobs in our industry...more women in college journ programs--about 75% are female.

I think that number might be a low estimate, especially for small market. I'd get ten women for every male applicant when looking for a reporter.

[Produce man]

Your post doesn't make much sense... but I can assure you a thick Southern accent doesn't work on air regardless of skin color.It does for a guy in sports...

[The Mockingbird]

Your post doesn't make much sense... but I can assure you a thick Southern accent doesn't work on air regardless of skin color.

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/IMAGES/MMPH/263807.jpg

You think that's tough, try having a thick Scottish Accent.

There can be only one... job opening.

[Another side]

I cannot believe what I have just read from any of you. I am an African-American female and I have not had it easy in this business. African-Americans still have to work twice as hard as whites I don't care where you live, don’t believe me
HERE'S A TEST TO PROVE I AM RIGHT!
If you are in the South (sorry for you northerners) walk up to an Southern African-American and have a conversation, I bet you will detect a person trying to HIDE a southern accent by over enunciating words or that person is from the north.
Now walk up to a southern white person........ They may sound like Jeff Foxworthy with the deepest and thickest accent, do you really think that an African American would survive with the same speech and diction.
BY THE WAY THIS TEST CAN BE PERFORMED IN ANY OFFICE IN THE SOUTH.
I can give this test because I lived it, and no I did not advance quickly in the news room, and when I did advance it was because I worked hard for it.
I have been passed over many times for young, cute, cheap labor and it usually had blonde hair and blue eyes.

Yeah, but that's The South. The South is racist, always has been. Texas, too. Texas and The South are racist.

[ISTHISTHINGON?]

I'll pass..
And as for the wig and contacts....I'll let all the makeup wearing men in this business have that..........
HEY HEY HEY!!!! I only wear makeup because it's required. The wig, however....oh that's mine baby. Thattttttt isssss minnnne.
I SAY GOOD DAY!:cheers:

[Shot A Load]

I cannot believe what I have just read from any of you. I am an African-American female and I have not had it easy in this business. African-Americans still have to work twice as hard as whites I don't care where you live, don’t believe me
HERE'S A TEST TO PROVE I AM RIGHT!
If you are in the South (sorry for you northerners) walk up to an Southern African-American and have a conversation, I bet you will detect a person trying to HIDE a southern accent by over enunciating words or that person is from the north.
Now walk up to a southern white person........ They may sound like Jeff Foxworthy with the deepest and thickest accent, do you really think that an African American would survive with the same speech and diction.
BY THE WAY THIS TEST CAN BE PERFORMED IN ANY OFFICE IN THE SOUTH.
I can give this test because I lived it, and no I did not advance quickly in the news room, and when I did advance it was because I worked hard for it.
I have been passed over many times for young, cute, cheap labor and it usually had blonde hair and blue eyes.

I didn't understand your post until you said cheap labor. The black women that I've worked with here have moved on to bigger markets than their white counter parts. I will also add that one of our black female reporters got an anchor positon over our younger, cheaper blonde. But I'm not in Texas.:)

[Sultanosurf]

If management would only learn, there's no cheap labor, just like there are no cheap dates...

[OntheRebound]

I am only posting this because I knew once race was injected the conversation would become a bit skewed. I definitely think about 10 years ago being black and female put you on a faster track--but now I would tend to disagree. And then it was only because so few markets had any minority representation at all. If you are starting from zero...well those people have to come from somewhere. And it also depends on how you categorize "move up". Are we talking just market size? Shift or pay?

Unless you are in a major market, at least top 20, a lot of stations in this country follow a predictable mold--especially in the South Main anchors (morning, noon, and evening weekdays) are majority white and the weekends have a minority anchor. My mid-market station in the South is the most diverse in the market. We have two black reporters (both women) out of a staff of 10. Six of those reporters are white women. All main anchors are white. We have no other on-air minorities. Our city is about 13-17 percent black depending on which census report you believe and has a growing Hispanic population. One of the black females is the weekend anchor. Two of the other three stations in the market have one black female--no other minorities--and the market leader has no minorities on air at all. All have more white women than men on staff reporting.

The market I interned at (in the Southwest) is slightly larger than the market I work in and their staffs look a lot like ours. I spent only a year in a small market station where during my exit interview my former boss told me " I just know you will end up being a weekend anchor somewhere!" I guess she thought that was encouraging-- but after three stints as a weekend anchor and being repeatedy passed over for main slots by white women with minimal experience in all but one case-- I frankly don't feel like race has been my "golden ticket"--nor should it be or do I think it should be/have been. By the way; I was the only minority on staff, period at my first station.

However, there is a misconception out there that needs to be corrected. This idea that if you have some melanin you just write your own ticket. Most stations have their "minority slots" and until someone leaves that post NO OTHER minorities are advancing to any level at that station no matter what their experience or quality of work is. And some stations who had those slots when people were really taking a stand for diversity don't replace those folks with minorities when they leave (and I'm not saying they always should) and the station goes back to lily white.

When my agent calls me about a job it's usually only when a station has lost its ONE black female reporter or anchor and they are looking to replace that person. Period. And its usually weekends and it's usually a position where the pay isn't too great because they lowballed the last person.

Major market positions don't come open often. If its a good station with a good reputation and pays well those folks are not leaving no matter what their race. So, you are waiting in line just like everyone else and perhaps your odds are slightly better if it's a market with a huge minority population, but I'm certainly not in demand in those markets, so I have yet to see the real advantage.

These days I think if you are talking about just moving up in position or market size the advantage goes to white women with Hispanic (or Hispanic looking) women a close second only because of the population shift.

[Sigonfile]

No, but I know a few who were quick to "go down" to "go up".