Spike Lee's World War Two movie

[Clapper]

Watch The trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXMVLN5rqpA)

The Guardian (http://film.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,,2284542,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=networkfront)

The acrimonious feud between two of Hollywood's best-known film directors reached a new level of name-calling and accusation at the weekend as Spike Lee invoked America's bitter legacy of slavery in response to Clint Eastwood's comments to the Guardian on Friday.
Responding to Lee's criticism of his second world war films for ignoring black soldiers, Eastwood said America's most influential black director, should "shut his face".

But after the remarks were reported around the world, Lee hit back, reminding the older man that they were not "on a plantation".

The reference to times when a white man could tell a black slave what to do came after Lee first issued a raft of fresh accusations against 78-year-old Eastwood, who has won five Oscars and boasts a string of celebrated gritty film roles, including "Dirty Harry" Callahan.
Lee, who has been nominated for two Academy awards, has made his own second world war film, Miracle at Santa Anna, which highlights an all-black US army division.

In responding to Eastwood's Guardian interview, he said: "First of all, the man is not my father and we're not on a plantation either. He's a great director. He makes his films, I make my films ... And a comment like 'A guy like that should shut his face' - come on Clint, come on. He sounds like an angry old man right there."

Lee's comments to abcnews.com were provoked by the equally blunt interview Eastwood gave to the Guardian last week. Riled by Lee's "whites-only" mauling of his films Flags of our Fathers and Letters from Iwo Jima, Eastwood accused him of historical ignorance before growling his advice to shut up.

He also mockingly implied that Lee's views exaggerated equal opportunities by quipping about his own next big film, The Human Factor, set in post-independence South Africa: "I'm not going to make Nelson Mandela a white guy."

Now Lee has repeated his charge that black US troops, who fought in a munitions company at Iwo Jima, had not been given a second of the four hours in Eastwood's two films.

Drawing on his two degrees from universities in Atlanta and New York, he added: "I'm not making this up. I know history. I'm a student of history. And I know the history of Hollywood and its omission of the one million African-American men and women who contributed to the second world war. Not everything was John Wayne, baby."

Lee accused Eastwood of ignoring other critics who picked up on the absence of black soldiers when Flags of Our Fathers premiered.

Thomas McPhatter, a US marines sergeant who crawled up the landing beach under a hail of Japanese fire, was one of hundreds of black servicemen involved in the attack.

He said: "Of all the movies that have been made of Iwo Jima, you never see a black face. This is the last straw. I feel like I've been denied, I've been insulted, I've been mistreated. But what can you do? We still have a strong underlying force in my country of rabid racism."

Lee pounced on Eastwood's derision of the idea that a token black American should have been included in the famous scene, where the Stars and Stripes, on a makeshift pole, is hoisted aloft on the island.

He said: "I never said he should show one of the other guys holding up the flag as black. I said that African-Americans played a significant part in Iwo Jima.

"For him to insinuate that I'm rewriting history and have one of the four guys with the flag be black ... no one said that. It's just that there's not one black in either film. And because I know my history, that's why I made that observation."

This leaves plenty of further ammunition if the row deepens, as McPhatter, who became a US navy lieutenant commander and served in the Vietnam war, does claim a black American took part in Iwo Jima flag-raising. Not in the actual dramatic moment, immortalised by the Marines Corps memorial at Arlington national cemetery, but by providing a flagpole. "The man who put the first flag up on Iwo Jima got a piece of pipe from me to put the flag up on," he said.

American academic Melton McLaurin has also used interviews in his history of the 35-day battle which suggested that newsreel photographers in the front line "deliberately turned their cameras away when black folks came by".

Lee however promised to draw a line under the bitter war of words, alluding to the tone of the bid for the White House of Barack Obama, who went to see Lee's Do The Right Thing on his first date with his wife Michelle. Lee said of Eastwood: "Even though he's trying to have a Dirty Harry flashback, I'm going to take the Obama high road and end it right here. Peace and love."

[!]

Perhaps Spike Lee's film about Iwo Jima will include black soldiers.

Oh, that's right, he's not making one, he's just criticizing another man's film.

He made his film already, and chose to focus on black soldiers.

[Chief]

Lee pounced on Eastwood's derision of the idea that a token black American should have been included in the famous scene, where the Stars and Stripes, on a makeshift pole, is hoisted aloft on the island.

He said: "I never said he should show one of the other guys holding up the flag as black. I said that African-Americans played a significant part in Iwo Jima.

"For him to insinuate that I'm rewriting history and have one of the four guys with the flag be black ... no one said that. It's just that there's not one black in either film. And because I know my history, that's why I made that observation."

Sounds like solid criticism to me, based upon historical fact.

[Roy Hobbs]

Every combat movie through time has had gripping scenes of guys hauling ammunition and supplies onto the beach.

[Mr. Rugen]

Spike has a point.
Watch the trailer. That movie looks good.

[Scarlet Termite]

Perhaps Spike Lee's film about Iwo Jima will include black soldiers.

Oh, that's right, he's not making one, he's just criticizing another man's film.

He made his film already, and chose to focus on black soldiers.

:thumbsup:

The thought that ran through my mind was, if Lee is so upset about it, then he should make his own film about the black soldiers who fought at Iwo Jima instead of screaming about Clint Eastwood's alleged racism.

[Kace]

Why not just do an historical film based on accuracy?

http://course1.winona.edu/pjohnson/images/Image31.gif

Oh. Nevermind.

[Tripe Face]

:thumbsup:

The thought that ran through my mind was, if Lee is so upset about it, then he should make his own film about the black soldiers who fought at Iwo Jima instead of screaming about Clint Eastwood's alleged racism.


What a moronic remark. So a man who is an accomplished filmmaker and knowledgeable about history and the black experience in America can't critique another man's film regarding its portrayal (or lack thereof) of black Americans? Instead he has to spend about $100 Million dollars to make his own film?

I think Clint's reaction was so angry because Spike hit a nerve. I'm a big fan of Clint's acting and directing... but lets face it... it the wide array of movies he's been involved in there are very very few positive black characters.

And Clint is the a guy who not once but TWICE used the line "That's mighty WHITE of you" in two different movies... at least once he says it to a black man in what was clearly a racist tone.

[Tippster]

"Birdy."

Implying that Clint Eastwood is a racist is a lame attempt (again) by Spike Lee, arguably a racist, to garner attention for his films.

[Clever Login Name]

And Clint is the a guy who not once but TWICE used the line "That's mighty WHITE of you" in two different movies... at least once he says it to a black man in what was clearly a racist tone.


Speaking of moronic remarks .... you're now criticizing him for a line written by someone else that he was paid to say because HE WAS ACTING?

You're even stupider than I thought ...

Spike Lee hasn't made a successful movie in years and he's taking to task a man who has several recent Oscar wins under his belt, as well as decades of commercial film success.

Sounds like somebody was itching for a controversy so he could a) remind people he's still out there, and b) promote whatever movie he's currently working on.

[Super Sally]

I hope its better than that Ken Burns thing on PBS. It was way too long and mostly in black and white.

[Tripe Face]

Speaking of moronic remarks .... you're now criticizing him for a line written by someone else that he was paid to say because HE WAS ACTING?

Spike Lee hasn't made a successful movie in years and he's taking to task a man who has several recent Oscar wins under his belt, as well as decades of commercial film success.

You're even stupider than I thought ... .

OK Clever, I'll grant you. Perhaps Clint tried to get that line changed in BOTH the movies in which he said it but to no avail.

And I won't argue my stupidity with you. There are others here who can that that for me (against me?).

But Spike's LAST major motion picture 2006's Inside man made about $270,000,000.00 world wide. Not exactly a failure.

Nonetheless Clint IS the bigger success in Hollywood so far.

However, you never addressed my point, why is Spike's only option for critiquing Clint's movies a new film of his own. Does he not enjoy freedom of speech? Are his opinions about Film, History, Blacks not valid just because you disagree?

[Kace]

I think at this point, it's a matter of trying to designate between what's criticism and what's whining. It's quite possible Clint took Spike's comments as the latter.

[Chief]

Are his opinions about Film, History, Blacks not valid just because you disagree?

And his facts are right. Blacks fought on Iwo Jima. And there are no blacks in either Eastwood film on the war.

It's irrefutable on that score. Lee wasn't saying that Eastwood should change history by including blacks were they weren't, he was criticizing Eastwood for removing blacks from where they were.

[Clever Login Name]

However, you never addressed my point, why is Spike's only option for critiquing Clint's movies a new film of his own. Does he not enjoy freedom of speech? Are his opinions about Film, History, Blacks not valid just because you disagree?

I never said that was his only option ... someone else suggested that. I think, at its core, this whole thing started from a reporter paraphrasing a Spike comment and Clint reacting to it, without knowing the full context or accuracy. As usually happens, the ensuing brouhaha tends to obscure what originally was most likely just a misunderstanding. But I do believe Spike welcomes the publicity.

And I'd forgotten he directed 'Inside Man' ... me dum two.

[Zero]

And I'd forgotten he directed 'Inside Man' ... me dum two.

And 25th Hour. That was a great movie. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-WuU7w3FCk

[Sigonfile]

FN (frickin nonsense) Like "Shaft" didn't use the words "Cracker". Next thing you know Spike will be attempting to call the writers of "Amos and Andy" racist.

[Zero]

Next thing you know Spike will be attempting to call the writers of "Amos and Andy" racist.

They were.

[Sigonfile]

He doesn't realize that it was a very highly rated and viewed show by African Americans in it's time. He's just po'd he didn't think of it first. Hell, next he'll complain that their were no main black characters on "Gilligan's Island", except for the occasional native who rowed to the island.

[Zero]

He doesn't realize that it was a very highly rated and viewed show by African Americans in it's time. Hell, next he'll complain that their were no main black characters on "Gilligan's Island", except for the occasional native who rowed to the island.

You think Spike Lee would have at sometime in his life thought that it would be funny to put white men in blackface and have them impersonate negative stereotypes for money? And you think Spike Lee is jealous because he didn't do that?

Gilligan's Island was not presented as an historically accurate account.

Do the right thing. Give it a rest, Spike's okay.

[Super Sally]

He doesn't realize that it was a very highly rated and viewed show by African Americans in it's time. He's just po'd he didn't think of it first. Hell, next he'll complain that their were no main black characters on "Gilligan's Island", except for the occasional native who rowed to the island.

Which episode was that?

[Sigonfile]

If Spike's into racial rightousness about WWII, let him make a movie about Louis Till. He's the father of Louis Emmitt Till, who was killed during the civil rights movement in Mississippi back in the 60's.

Louis Till (died July 2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_2), 1945 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1945)) was the father of Emmett Louis Till (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmett_Louis_Till), who was murdered when he was 14 in Mississippi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippi). Louis Till was drafted into the U.S. Army (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army) in 1943. While in Italy, he was convicted of raping two women and murdering a third,[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Till#cite_note-0)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Till#cite_note-1) and executed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executed) by the Army by hanging (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanging) near Pisa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pisa) on July 2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_2), 1945 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1945).

[Buffalo Soldier]

Ah, the racists are out tonight.

Look Spike did make a World War II movie, and it looks to be a very good one. And it took Spike Lee to make a World War II movie with blacks as lead actors, when some directors don't even include black soldiers as background actors.

Saw the trailer. Looks to be another great Spike Lee joint.

Keep talking truth to power.

[Produce man]

I find this thread amusing...

[Diplomat]

If Spike Lee wants to make a movie about WWII, fine. I don't particularly enjoy WWII flicks but I am sure many people will. The last WWII flick I saw in a theater was "MacArthur."

[Tripe Face]

If Spike Lee wants to make a movie about WWII, fine. I don't particularly enjoy WWII flicks but I am sure many people will. The last WWII flick I saw in a theater was "MacArthur."

Dip, damn you are old. I think that was the FIRST WWII flick I saw... maybe a Bridge Too Far (and a movie too long).

Saving Private Ryan really should be enjoyed in a theater with top of the line sound and some men in the 80s in the audience so you can thank them as they leave. It may be the only time any movie brought a tear to my eye.

[Diplomat]

Dip, damn you are old. I think that was the FIRST WWII flick I saw... maybe a Bridge Too Far (and a movie too long).

Saving Private Ryan really should be enjoyed in a theater with top of the line sound and some men in the 80s in the audience so you can thank them as they leave. It may be the only time any movie brought a tear to my eye.

Not quite as old as you are, actually, going by some of the dates and times you've mentioned in various posts. But close.

I saw "MacArthur" as a kid. Got taken by relatives. I've seen a lot of the WWII stuff on TV and my father and several friends were WWII vets and they have powerful stories. One friend who recently passed was wounded in the Battle of the Bulge but declined to apply for a Purple Heart saying others were more deserving.

I've read A Bridge Too Far and some of Cornelius Ryan's other works. Good stuff.

[Sultanosurf]

Hey, you don't think Spike might want some pub for a new movie coming out, d'ya?

Otherwise why is it an issue a week later?

Clint probably should've skipped the "shut" line, but Spike's getting a lotta mileage off of somebody who just made an entire movie from the JAPANESE perspective on Iwo Jima. And let's not forget how many great roles he's give Morgan Freeman. Although we could probably pass on that big role he gave Mario Van Peebles.

There are a ton of great WWII flicks. The best recently: Paul Verhoeven's "Black Book."

[Zero]

Hey, you don't think Spike might want some pub for a new movie coming out, d'ya?

I'm sure he's happy to have publicity about his World War II movie. But he answered an honest question honestly. And he was right. Clint Eastwood shot two movies about the battle of Iwo Jima... two of them. And there's not a black face in either movie.

That's not an opinon. It's a fact.

And Spike Lee pointed out that there were black soldiers fighting in World War II, and in fact there were black soldiers fighting on Iwo Jima.

That's not an opinon it's a fact.

You can't argue with the facts. You may not like the facts, and you might believe that it's okay to dilute or change the facts according to your own personal whims, but you can't argue with the facts. Clint Eastwood erased black soldiers from two consecutive films.

Clint says he didn't notice. And that's his defense.

The point is, maybe he should have noticed.

Spike Lee isn't just throwing out that observation in order to sell tickets to his new movie. He was interviewed and he spoke about the fact that blacks are shunned in war movies, with the rare exception of James Brown in the Dirty Dozen. It's not an opinon. It's a fact.

You don't think he should go around pretending not to notice what's obvious, do you?

[Sigonfile]

Clint Eastwood should just "go ahead and make" Spike Lee's day.

[Pro]

Eastwood should have said "I made my movie, now go make yours.".

[cinehead]

FN (frickin nonsense) Like "Shaft" didn't use the words "Cracker". Next thing you know Spike will be attempting to call the writers of "Amos and Andy" racist.

What the hell does the movie "Shaft" have to do with Spike Lee? Wait, I know, it was directed by a black guy and all black guys are the same, right?

[Sultanosurf]

I like Spike's flicks but this debate is daffy. Let's even leave Eastwood and Lee movies out of this for a minute.

Should Ving Rhames fictional character in "Rosewood " have been white? There were whites lynched, too. Why weren't there any Latinos or Asians in "Boyz in the "Hood"? Lots of them in the hood. We could go on for days.

Lee has chosen to perpetuate stereotypes in his screenplays (Wesley Snipes has an affair with a white Annabella Sciorra in "Jungle Fever," you could lose count of the Italian, Asian, and Jewish stereotypes in nearly all his screenplays) while Eastwood blew away stereotype in "The Unforgiven" and "Million Dollar Baby." And the sad story of Pima Ira Hayes' sure hasn't been told to the magnitude of "Flags." While "Letters" required a leap of faith for us even fifty years on, since it humanizes the worst villainy we'd known until al-Qaeda.

Narrative storytelling requires a POV. To me, the starkest reality of Iwo Jima is that three of the six flagraisers in the most famous of the Rosenberg pictures -- were killed in the subsequent fighting before the island finally fell. That was one of the most heartbreaking points of the book. But sometimes you can't make a gripping film POV from facts and books. Which Lee should be the first to know...

[cinehead]

Sultan is right. Sure, maybe Eastwood should have had some black characters in Flags of Our Fathers; even it was just for accuracy. But Eastwood is far from a racist filmmaker. Look at Bird, or Morgan Freeman's characters in Unforgiven and Million Dollar Baby.

I think Tripe missed the point of Eastwood's somewhat racist Harry Callahan. Sure, he had racist tendencies, but they were presented as character flaws. That's why it's ridiculous to criticize the dialogue. His character is racist and sexist. Then, he gets a minority or female partner that disproves his stereotypes.

[Shot A Load]

I contend some people manufacture racism. WHat's this crap about I'm not a slave?

[Tippster]

Lee has chosen to perpetuate stereotypes in his screenplays (Wesley Snipes has an affair with a white Annabella Sciorra in "Jungle Fever," ...Duh. That's the definition of "Jungle Fever" - a white woman having an affair with a black man.

[Fire Hydrogant]

I remember back when Spike made Malcolm X (what year was that, 1993?), and I was extremely disappointed to see the academy give the Best Picture Oscar to Clint Eastwood for Unforgiven instead of Malcolm X.
Unforgiven was good, but not deserving of an Oscar, IMO.

On another note:
Blacks fought on Iwo Jima. And there are no blacks in either Eastwood film on the war.
It's irrefutable on that score. Lee wasn't saying that Eastwood should change history by including blacks were they weren't, he was criticizing Eastwood for removing blacks from where they were.
Based on the trailer of "Myracle of St. Anna", could it be that there aren't any white combat soldiers in Spike's film? Could one just as easily be justified in accusing Spike Lee of removing whites from where they were in history?

[Clever Login Name]

Now Spike's channeling New Orleans mayor Nagin ... from the Norfolk (VA) Examiner:

Obama would make D.C. a ‘chocolate city,’ Lee says POSTED June 20, 1:59 AM

Getty Images
Hundreds of Spike Lee fans began lining up as much as two hours before his appearance Thursday night at the Silverdocs film festival in Silver Spring. After running the gauntlet of cameras on the red carpet, Lee was treated to a montage of his own work before settling in to a chat with Denver Post film critic Lisa Kennedy.

An expert on Hurricane Katrina thanks to his film “When the Levees Broke,” Lee said the same problems are affecting Missouri right now.

“The money’s going to other things,” he said. “That’s going to change though.” As applause escalated, he added, in a clear reference to Barack Obama, “We’ll have a real chocolate city.”

Next up for Spike: a film in which he shot Kobe Bryant with 30 cameras before and during a Laker game in April. He said he was inspired by a similar film he saw about French soccer star Zinedine Zidane at Cannes. “I thought, ‘But this would work better with basketball,’ ” he said.

[rootboyslim]

Personally, I find Spike Lee to be a jerk and a bit racist himself. But he has every right to say what he did. I'm sure it his a nerve with Clint, but he could not say Spike is right, I should have had more diversity within the ranks. Or maybe he should have said that.

Wasn't there a movie about black soldiers starring Denzel???

[Pro]

Wasn't there a movie about black soldiers starring Denzel???

"A Soldier's Story". About an all-black unit serving stateside in World War II. It was a murder mystery directed by Norman Jewison.

[rootboyslim]

"A Soldier's Story". About an all-black unit serving stateside in World War II. It was a murder mystery directed by Norman Jewison.

I am thinking of another movie. Maybe Matthew Broderick was in it, maybe it was not that one, but I know there was one.... maybe it was Civil War. I dunno.

Whatwas the Cuba Gooding movie about Navy and he held his breath underwater for like five minutes. He lost his leg and ent back in. Wasn't that WWII?

[Zero]

I am thinking of another movie. Maybe Matthew Broderick was in it, maybe it was not that one, but I know there was one.... maybe it was Civil War. I dunno.

Yes, it was called Glory. And it was set in the Civil War. Denzel won a best supporting actor Oscar. Morgan Freeman also starred.

What's you're point? That the blacks should be happy and shut up because they had one movie? That certainly does appear to be what you're implying.

The Cuba Gooding Junior movie you're thinking of is called Men of Honor, with Robert Deniro.

Can you name a World War II movie (other than A Soldiers Story) where a black actor has a starring role? I don't think Men of Honor counts. That's not really a World War II movie, in my opinion.

[rootboyslim]

Yes, it was called Glory. And it was set in the Civil War. Denzel won a best supporting actor Oscar. Morgan Freeman also starred.

What's you're point? That the blacks should be happy and shut up because they had one movie? That certainly does appear to be what you're implying.

The Cuba Gooding Junior movie you're thinking of is called Men of Honor, with Robert Deniro.

Can you name a World War II movie (other than A Soldiers Story) where a black actor has a starring role? I don't think Men of Honor counts. That's not really a World War II movie, in my opinion.


You truly are a zero, pal. Get a freakin' grip. It is conversation, nothing more, nothing less. If you cared to even read what I had written, I said Spike had every right to say what he did. I also responded to people who said there had never been a movie nade about black soldiers in WWII.

[Zero]

I said Spike had every right to say what he did. I also responded to people who said there had never been a movie nade about black soldiers in WWII.

Take it easy. Of course Spike has a right to say what he said. What's more accurate to say is that Spike was right in what he said.

If the obvious implication that you meant blacks should be happy because they have one dramatic movie with a mostly black cast was wrong, I sincerely apologize.

[Pro]

Can you name a World War II movie (other than A Soldiers Story) where a black actor has a starring role?.

Tuskegee Airmen. Albeit an HBO movie. Starring Lawrence Fishburn.

[Spike]

Can you name a World War II movie (other than A Soldiers Story) where a black actor has a starring role?

Pearl Harbor. Cuba Gooding, Jr. received top billing for a role that was painfully shoehorned into a story in which it didn't belong, just to have a token black in the film. The ONLY reason that role was there was to appease black critics. And what happened? The role was criticized by blacks for being a token black role.

So, you take a story that is about some white people and leave out blacks, and black people complain. You take the same story about some white people and put a token black in there, and black people complain. You make a movie about some black people, with or without whites in it, and black people and racism apologists conveniently forget it exists when they go on their idiotic rants.

Clint Eastwood is a master storyteller. If the story he was telling had involved black people, he would have included them. The story he was telling did not involve black people. It would not have been true to the work for him to include them just to appease Spike Lee.

[Zero]

If the story he was telling had included black people, he would have included them. The story he was telling did not include black people. It would not have been true to the work for him to include them just to appease Spike Lee.

You miss the point. How do you "just happen" to not include black actors?
That's a conscious decision. Why exclude them is a legitmate question, and it's one that Spike Lee asks.

He didn't say in a starring role. He didn't say replace a white with a black hoisting the flag at Iwo Jima. But to not have black actors anywhere in either film when in fact black men were involved in the fighting at Iow Jima, takes some doing.

[Spike]

You miss the point. How do you "just happen" to not include black actors?
That's a conscious decision. Why exclude them is a legitmate question, and it's one that Spike Lee asks.

There were 110,000 Americans at Iwo Jima.

Only 700 to 900 (estimated) of them were black.

That's .6% to .8%.

AND they were mostly in supply roles, not fighting on the front lines.

Was the movie about the supply line? I thought it was about the guys who planted the flag.

What you're essentially arguing is that Eastwood should have changed his movie to tell the story of the supply lines, in an attempt to disproportionately represent blacks in a historical event that was 99.2% or more accomplished by white people.

You know, it bugs me that Friends took place in New York but nobody ever seemed to see any black people. It does NOT bother me that Clint Eastwood didn't toss in some token blacks just to appease pathetic little Spike Lee who hasn't made a good film in years.

[Sultanosurf]

Nah, Zero, actually you miss the point. Try reading James Bradley's "Flags of Our Fathers." Bradley's (And Eastwood's) story is about the men who raised the flag on Suribachi, and especially Bradley's father and Ira Hayes.

If you wanna pick bones, why not find a movie that blatantly missed involvement of African-Americans, like "The Red Ball Express."

And Spike (Strange coincidence), as mentioned before, Spike Lee did a great job with "Inside Man."

BTW "A Soldier's Story" starred Howard E Rollins (Died far too young) and the Oscar-nominated Adolph Caesar (Who also died too young).

Rollins was a fine actor who earned an Oscar nod himself for "Ragtime," which featured a memorable nude scene by Elizabeth Perkins (Whoops that should be Elizabeth McGovern) and the last screen performances by two film legends. Can anybody name 'em? No-o-o Google...

[Spike]

And Spike (Strange coincidence), as mentioned before, Spike Lee did a great job with "Inside Man."

I saw it. Meh.

[Zero]

Nah, Zero, actually you miss the point. Try reading James Bradley's "Flags of Our Fathers." Bradley's (And Eastwood's) story is about the men who raised the flag on Suribachi, and especially Bradley's father and Ira Hayes.

Yes, yes, yes, I understand the main story and have no problems with that. But there certainly were combat scenes in the war movie. Remember those? There were soldiers fighting in those scenes, were they not?

It's got to be hard for you keep up this argument. I bet you're bending over backwards finding ways to twist things around so you don't have to admit that you're wrong.

So be it.

There were black soldiers fighting on Iwo Jima. Eastwood directed two movies about the battle and nary a single black man in uniform was seen on screen anywhere.

Hard to justify it as "who cares", but it sounds as if that's the attitude.

[Sultanosurf]

Actually, once again, it's got to be hard for YOU to keep up. Black soldiers were there, but for whatever the constraints of the era, they sure weren't fighting in the definition of "Flags." They were limited to supply missions, as Hobbs pointed out right at the start here. Unless you can source us otherwise. Even IF you can, it really has nothing to do with the narrative of "Flags of Our Fathers." Ever read it?

And could somebody please hit me with a ballpeen hammer rather than waste time with this guy?

[Jane Craig]

Rollins was a fine actor who earned an Oscar nod himself for "Ragtime," which featured a memorable nude scene by Elizabeth Perkins (Whoops that should be Elizabeth McGovern) and the last screen performances by two film legends. Can anybody name 'em? No-o-o Google...

James Cagney was one and I am guessing the other was Pat O'Brien. And yes, Rollins was terrific and died way too young.

Ragtime is an amazing book (notable for its complete lack of dialogue) which was also made into a brilliant stage musical.

[Sultanosurf]

Ding-ding-ding! The last hurrah for the incomparable Cagney AND O'Brien.

It was sorta sad to see all the demons Rollins fought afterward. The cast of the TV "In the Heat of the Night" sure had problems.

Jane, I'd take you to a movie, but everybody would wanna kill us, 'cause we'd be talking all the way through.

Btw, if you wanna see an absolutely great flick with both Cagney & O'Brien in their prime, check out "The Torrid Zone." Great writing and some snappy deliveries that will have you backing up to hear 'em again. Ann Sheridan is also great. I think Chill Wills, too. (Eta -- not Wills but Andy Devine. I always get those two mixed up)

[Diplomat]

Actually, once again, it's got to be hard for YOU to keep up. Black soldiers were there, but for whatever the constraints of the era, they sure weren't fighting in the definition of "Flags." They were limited to supply missions, as Hobbs pointed out right at the start here. Unless you can source us otherwise. Even IF you can, it really has nothing to do with the narrative of "Flags of Our Fathers." Ever read it?

And could somebody please hit me with a ballpeen hammer rather than waste time with this guy?

Sultan, you are correct. "Flags of our Fathers" was a great book--and it sold well at the bookstore near my office.

I won't hit you with a hammer, though. However, I will lend you one so you can hit that person. :)

[Spike]

By the way, I haven't seen Eastwood's movie. It was on videotape, and somebody erased it. But that's okay because videotape is made to be erased.

[Kace]

I'm sensing a running theme...

[Spike]

I'm sensing a running theme...

I wish you well.

[Mighty Dyckerson]

Yes, it was called Glory. And it was set in the Civil War.

I watched a similar movie called Glory Hole. It was about a Civil *****.

[Zero]

Even IF you can, it really has nothing to do with the narrative of "Flags of Our Fathers."
Once again, being a black soldier on Iwo Jima has nothing to do with the storyline. I think we've established this to be true and understood by all. So why do you keep falling back on it as if you're making a new point?

Question: Were black soldiers part of the battle of Iwo Jima?
Answer: Yes.

Was there a single black face in either Eastwood movie about the battle of Iwo Jima?
Answer: No.

You're welcome.

[rootboyslim]

Take it easy. Of course Spike has a right to say what he said. What's more accurate to say is that Spike was right in what he said.

If the obvious implication that you meant blacks should be happy because they have one dramatic movie with a mostly black cast was wrong, I sincerely apologize.

Apology accepted.

[Pro]

Rollins was a fine actor who earned an Oscar nod himself for "Ragtime," which featured a memorable nude scene by Elizabeth Perkins (Whoops that should be Elizabeth McGovern) and the last screen performances by two film legends. Can anybody name 'em? No-o-o Google...

One was James Cagney.

[Zero]

Norman Mailer was in it, but I don't consider him a film legend.

[Sultanosurf]

One was James Cagney.

See Jane's answer above.

[Paper Trail]

Movie Preview: Miracle at St. Anna
by BuzzSugar (http://buzzsugar.com/1707455)

When Spike Lee isn't making waves with his speech, he's making movies that also provoke. The latest addition to his canon, Miracle at St. Anna, will be out this Fall, and this week brought us the first glimpse of its trailer. The film is an adaptation of a novel by the same title and follows the harrowing story of four African-American soldiers trapped in an Italian village during World War II.

This is the first feature-length film Lee has released since his terrific 2006 "joint" Inside Man, and based on the trailer, it looks like he may have found a way to examine history, tell a great story, and entertain all in one film. In fact, this looks like the kind of moving, sweeping tale that the folks who give out Oscars tend to enjoy. I wonder if we are seeing a preview of a potential 2008 nominee? Time will tell!

Miracle at St. Anna opens Sept. 26. Watch the trailer for yourself. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXMVLN5rqpA&eurl=http://buzzsugar.com/1707455)

[Mr. Rugen]

"A Soldier's Story". About an all-black unit serving stateside in World War II. It was a murder mystery directed by Norman Jewison.

Or Glory.

[Hack Wilson Fan]

What ever happened to Spike Lee's biography of Jackie Robinson?

[Roy Hobbs]

He let Pujols write it then dropped the script because it sucked.

[Buffalo Soldier]

Looks like a good movie to me.

[Clubbeat]

That when it comes to Tinsel town's take on blacks folks contribution's to the war effort, like the mindset of the time, blacks were less than whites. Unfortunately it was he way of the world then.

That same premise holds true across many spectrums of American culture and society. It continues to change, slowly and often times, not easily but change is occurring and is constant.

I believe the point Spike was making is that black folks, like many other races, served bravely and honorably during WWII as well as every conflict this country has faced. The fact that we do not show up or have shown up in miniscule parts on the big screen is just a function of a white's only system that is also changing.

The cool thing is that we are at a place as a nation to keep that change going and to make sure we tell the true stories of all the people who make up this country and their contribution to our growth.

As a fan of the military and someone who enjoys studying military history, I have no problem with Clint's version or any other person's version of major military battles played out on the big screen, because Spike and other talented film maker's can tell the same story from a different perspective.

[Zero]

I have no problem with Clint's version or any other person's version of major military battles played out on the big screen, because Spike and other talented film maker's can tell the same story from a different perspective.

I see. So it's THEIR problem if WHITE directors and writers IGNORE the contributions of African Americans during war time?

Let THEM write and produce THEIR OWN stories?

Look up separate but equal, pal. It's a bunch of ****.

An historical look at a subject should not exclude the contributions of an entire race because the writer or director forgot about it, or didn't think it was of any importance. And when someone like Spike Lee speaks out about, the thoughful and intelligent response is not GO MAKE YOUR OWN MOVIE.

[Sigonfile]

Funny, you don't hear Indians complaining about Tonto's roll in "The Lone Ranger".

[Sultanosurf]

Funny, you don't hear Indians complaining about Tonto's roll in "The Lone Ranger".

Not so fast there Kimosabe.

"I hated Tonto. (Still do)" http://www.fallsapart.com/tonto.html

And it's funny that even with another thoughtful and objective post like Clubbeat, our friend Zed can still find more to complain about. Does the sun ever shine in your part of the world?

[Zero]

you don't hear Indians complaining about Tonto's roll.

What Tonto had a roll?

[Zero]

Does the sun ever shine in your part of the world?

Every day, and it makes me smile.

[Shot A Load]

If anybody looks hard enough, they can find something wrong with anything. Apparently some posters (I won't mention names because it wouldn't be fair to Zero) have that ability.

[Kace]

Isn't the whole point of a movie based on historical events (aside from the Let's Make Us Some Money thing) to do some research of your own to get the complete story, not just the Made For Hollywood version?

[Dap]

Were the contributions of Major Charity Adams Early and the 6888th (http://www.postalmuseum.si.edu/AfricanAmericans/p7.html)included? I bet not.

A brief lesson from the link above:

The 6888th was the only all African American, all female battalion.(3 (http://www.postalmuseum.si.edu/AfricanAmericans/p7.html#_edn3)) It was deployed overseas first to Birmingham, England then later to Rouen, France.(4 (http://www.postalmuseum.si.edu/AfricanAmericans/p7.html#_edn4))

When the women arrived in Birmingham in 1943 they saw letters stacked to the ceiling of the temporary post office. Much of the mail had been there for as long as two years waiting to be sent to soldiers in the field. The women were charged with delivering mail to approximately seven million American troops stationed in Europe. The successful delivery of the mail was an important morale booster for men on the front. One difficult task was sorting letters to guarantee that they were sent to the correct “John Smith” or “Tommy Jones”. To ensure delivery, women worked three shifts, seven days a week. Mary Ebo, a 6888th veteran, recalled that “the troops were moving so fast the mail couldn’t keep up with them . . . [the women of the 6888th] had a job that had to be done. It wasn’t a pretty job [but] we felt we were doing our part.”(5 (http://www.postalmuseum.si.edu/AfricanAmericans/p7.html#_edn5))

http://www.postalmuseum.si.edu/AfricanAmericans/14-WACs.jpg

Although they were contributing to the war effort in significant way, the women of the 6888th were still kept separate from the other American troops. The women slept in segregated barracks and ate in segregated dining halls. Major Early, when recalling her military career, remembered that “We didn’t mix it up. We were segregated two ways, because we were black and because we were women.”(6 (http://www.postalmuseum.si.edu/AfricanAmericans/p7.html#_edn6))

[Clubbeat]

I see. So it's THEIR problem if WHITE directors and writers IGNORE the contributions of African Americans during war time?

Let THEM write and produce THEIR OWN stories?

Look up separate but equal, pal. It's a bunch of ****.

An historical look at a subject should not exclude the contributions of an entire race because the writer or director forgot about it, or didn't think it was of any importance. And when someone like Spike Lee speaks out about, the thoughful and intelligent response is not GO MAKE YOUR OWN MOVIE.

It is the problem of whoever makes historical films about the contributions of all americans and fails to do the homework or include the research in the film.

The fact that we have an option to make movies that tell the same story from a different perspective is something that we, as blacks, are still working on utilizing. I don't like the fact that people can't or do not want to tell the whole story but that is their problem...white or black. The fact that someone can come along and tell another version of it works for me, whether it's Spike Lee or Oliver Stone.

What really bothers me is the fact that there are many people WHO are just acknowledging the fact that many people from many races and cultures, made major contributions to the WWII effort, at home and overseas. It also bothers me that their stories aren't being told or are being told to limited audiences as well as the fact that if someone like Spike makes a movie about the efforts of blacks during the war, that a lot of whites will not bother to see it cause they'll think its a film for 'black people' (I actually had someone say that to me about a a film recently).

[Zero]

I don't like the fact that people can't or do not want to tell the whole story but that is their problem...white or black. The fact that someone can come along and tell another version of it works for me, whether it's Spike Lee or Oliver Stone.

What really bothers me is the fact that there are many people WHO are just acknowledging the fact that many people from many races and cultures, made major contributions to the WWII effort, at home and overseas. It also bothers me that their stories aren't being told or are being told to limited audiences as well as the fact that if someone like Spike makes a movie about the efforts of blacks during the war, that a lot of whites will not bother to see it cause they'll think its a film for 'black people' (I actually had someone say that to me about a a film recently).
I think we're on the same boat. I thought you implied that African Americans like Spike Lee should not be speaking out about the absence of African Americans in films about World War II. That instead they should just shut up and go make their own movies.

That's exclusionary, segregated thinking and it just pisses me off. And as we've seen on this thread, it's far from uncommon on Medialine.

But clearly that's not what you meant.

It would have been so much more classy if Eastwood would have responded to the legitimate concerns about his removal of black faces from Iwo Jima by saying that it was not his artistic intention to give the erroneous impression that World War II was fought only by whites or to eliminate the sacrifice and valor of an entire race of people. He could have said that his dramatic emphasis was placed on the characters in the foreground of the story and he didn't pay as much attention to the historically accurate background as he might have.

But he didn't do that. And Spike Lee thought it was just another glaring omission. And he's right.

Spike Lee does not make movies for one race. Malcolm X was an important political figure in American history, not black history. But it took Spike Lee to put that story on film with a dramatic story. Hurricane Katrina affected all of America, not just African Americans, as Spike's documentary so wonderfully told. Do The Right Thing is a classic that will find it's place in rightful place in American film history, not African-American film history.

[Zero]

If Spike's into racial rightousness about WWII, let him make a movie about Louis Till. He's the father of Louis Emmitt Till, who was killed during the civil rights movement in Mississippi back in the 60's.

Louis Till (died July 2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_2), 1945 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1945)) was the father of Emmett Louis Till (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmett_Louis_Till), who was murdered when he was 14 in Mississippi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippi). Louis Till was drafted into the U.S. Army (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army) in 1943. While in Italy, he was convicted of raping two women and murdering a third,[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Till#cite_note-0)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Till#cite_note-1) and executed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executed) by the Army by hanging (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanging) near Pisa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pisa) on July 2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_2), 1945 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1945).

Racist exhibit "A."

[Zero]

:thumbsup:

The thought that ran through my mind was, if Lee is so upset about it, then he should make his own film about the black soldiers who fought at Iwo Jima instead of screaming about Clint Eastwood's alleged racism.

Racist exhibit "B".

[Zero]

Eastwood should have said "I made my movie, now go make yours.".

Racist exhibit "C".

[Zero]

Clint Eastwood is a master storyteller. If the story he was telling had involved black people, he would have included them. The story he was telling did not involve black people. It would not have been true to the work for him to include them just to appease Spike Lee.


Racist exhibt "D".

[Produce man]

The above 4 posts= Dumbass exhibit X.

[Kace]

Scarlet's not a racist. :(

[Zero]

Scarlet's not a racist. :(

I'd have to say based upon the quote above, that your defense is sadly misplaced. To suggest that an African American who rightly, intelligently and calmly pointed out that a white filmmaker excluded blacks from two successive World War II movies is somehow screaming, is racist.

It sounds like something Bill O'Reilly might say.

When did Spike Lee scream this at anyone? Next Scarlet's gonna suggest that Spike screamed for more MF'n iced tea.

And to disparage or dismiss the factual historical correction which Spike Lee pointed out is an attempt to devalue the many contributions of African Americans not only in World War II, but in American society in general.

To suggest that Spike Lee go make his own movie and cast it with black soldiers is a stated wish to segregate the film world, instead of insisting that historical accuracy is important to some degree in historical films, and that racial insensitivity such as deliberately eliminating an entire race from view is both highly loathsome and morally objectionable.

[Kace]

I'd have to say based upon the quote above, that your defense is sadly misplaced.

I'm basing it on actually knowing her better than you. :)

[Zero]

I'm sure she's a friendly racist, if you're the right people.

[Kace]

You need to come up with undeniable proof that she's racist. The above quote has her criticizing a filmmaker, which you don't have to be any particular skin tone to be criticized. 'Sides, Scarlet's biggest detraction efforts involve that black person we know as Bill Hemmer.

All kidding aside, until you can come up with undeniable proof, I cannot help but dismiss you as rather trollish at this point. :-/

Although an apology for making a baseless accusation towards someone always works. :hug:

[Zero]

You need to come up with undeniable proof that she's racist.

It's a racist attitude to suggest that a black man who made an intelligent and true observation was screaming. True or not?

It's a racist attitude to suggest that historical films don't have to include blacks, and if blacks don't like it, they can make their own movies. True or not?

I only know what Scarlet posts. And that is undeniable.

[Sultanosurf]

By now, it's clear who's the real racist.

Hey, Z, if you're looking for a WWII story where race was actually germane, check out the following:

http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq80-1.htm


Port Chicago Naval Magazine Explosion, 1944

[Kace]

It's a racist attitude...

Only if you think of it as such. If you knew better, you wouldn't jump to those conclusions. Again, undenialbe proof or apologize.

[Zero]

If you knew better, you wouldn't jump to those conclusions.

She chose her words. She knows what they mean. There is no defense.

[Kace]

he chose her words. She knows what they mean.

So then you're assuming based on what could very well be a predisposition. Something undeniable or apologize.

[Zero]

So then you're assuming based on what could very well be a predisposition.
I'm concluding based upon the known facts. She made racist comments therefore, she must be a racist.

It's quite simple in the intelligent world.

[Kace]

I'm concluding based upon the known facts.

None of which conclude racism.

She made racist comments therefore, she must be a racist.

Again, undeniable proof or apologize.

It's quite simple in the intelligent world.

Uh huh.

[Zero]

It's a racist attitude to suggest that a black man who made an intelligent and true observation was screaming. True or not?

It's a racist attitude to suggest that historical films don't have to include blacks, and if blacks don't like it, they can make their own movies. True or not?

A racist makes racist comments. True or not?

[Kace]

Interesting. I didn't realize Clint Eastwood and Spike Lee counted as groups of people. Figured they were just individuals and criticizing individuals didn't necessarily involve racism.

Again...something undeniable. Specific examples, no spin...just a flatout no way around it SPECIFIC example. Or apologize.

[Sultanosurf]

good luck Kace.

[Kace]

If all else fails, we'll just erase the thread and record over it. :rockon:

[Zero]

It's a racist attitude to suggest that a black man who made an intelligent and true observation was screaming. True or not?

It's a racist attitude to suggest that historical films don't have to include blacks, and if blacks don't like it, they can make their own movies. True or not?

A racist makes racist comments. True or not?

You cannot refute it.
You cannot dispute it.
You cannot dilute it.

[Kace]

In order to look at it that way, one must first inject racism into it. Scarlet didn't do that, so it appears you're actually more of the racist in this equation.

[!]

It's a racist attitude to suggest that a black man who made an intelligent and true observation was screaming. True or not?

It's a racist attitude to suggest that historical films don't have to include blacks, and if blacks don't like it, they can make their own movies. True or not?

A racist makes racist comments. True or not?

You cannot refute it.
You cannot dispute it.
You cannot dilute it.Are you channeling Johnny Cochran or just playing your Sir Speedy know-it-all-never-ever-admit-you're-wrong role again?

[Produce man]

Are you channeling Johnny Cochran...LOL, I was just about to mention that before I read your post!:worship:

In this case, though, it's "If Zero doesn't know sh!t, you must acquitt."

[Produce man]

Then you true to reroute it.I know Johnny Cochran, Zero.

You're no Johnny Cochran.:loveyou:

[Zero]

Are you channeling Johnny Cochran?

Obviously, you cannot compute it.
So you misconstrue it.
Then you try to reroute it.
Because you're too ignorant to salute it.

[neodeity]

It's a racist attitude to suggest that a black man who made an intelligent and true observation was screaming. True or not?
Not true. It is not racist to say that a man, a film maker, who's making a big stink about another man's movie is yelling or screaming about it. One might say he's railing against the movie, he's up in arms, he's very upset, he's screaming about it, he's yelling about it. All phrases say the same thing, he's not happy about this movie and he wants to make a big deal about it; none of the phrases would be considered to have any racial overtones absent the fact that the "he" in the phrases happens to be black film maker expressing his displeasure at the absence of blacks in the other man's movie. If it was a "Christian" film maker complaining about the non-role of chaplains in the movie one might use the exact same phrases to describe the offended party.

It's a racist attitude to suggest that historical films don't have to include blacks, and if blacks don't like it, they can make their own movies. True or not?
Not true. If the movie is a "day in the life" of a marine who took part in the battle, and said marine never encountered a black marine/sailor/soldier during that day due to the segregated nature of the armed forces at that time; then it would be more racist (if only because of the pandering nature of the inaccuracy) to include black cast members. If the point of his (Eastwood's) film was the contributions of black people to the war effort; then he would have been remiss. Since he (Eastwood) didn't include any; I conclude that wasn't the gist of his film. By the way, if anyone has a place to say, "if you don't like it, make your own movie,” it would be Eastwood. If you talk sh!t someone's work; you should be prepared to have some tossed back in you're direction.

A racist makes racist comments. True or not?
Not true. I think most of your most dangerous racists are well aware of the limits of their sympathetic audience. I hypothesize that your nastiest racists would never say anything outside of a very select group of like-minded knuckleheads.

You cannot refute it.
I did.
You cannot dispute it.
I am.
You cannot dilute it.
As usual, you’re arguments don’t hold water; I suspect you’re moist.
Remember, if the Foo sh!ts; wear it.

[Dap]

It's a racist attitude to suggest that a black man who made an intelligent and true observation was screaming. True or not?

It's a racist attitude to suggest that historical films don't have to include blacks, and if blacks don't like it, they can make their own movies. True or not?

A racist makes racist comments. True or not?

You cannot refute it.
You cannot dispute it.
You cannot dilute it.

Racists often don't realize they're racist. Therefore, when you point out a racist remark or action, they can get quite indignant as Mr. Eastwood did.

[Kace]

Yeah, but we're talking about Scarlet now, who isn't racist.

[cinehead]

Racists often don't realize they're racist. Therefore, when you point out a racist remark or action, they can get quite indignant as Mr. Eastwood did.


So, you're accusing Clint Eastwood of being a racist?

Maybe you are as ignorant as other posters have suggested. Would a racist have made "Bird"? Were the black characters in his Unforgiven, Million Dollar Baby and Blood Work racist? Would a racist make a World War II movie for the Japanese point of view?

[cinehead]

Were the contributions of Major Charity Adams Early and the 6888th (http://www.postalmuseum.si.edu/AfricanAmericans/p7.html)included? I bet not.

A brief lesson from the link above:

The 6888th was the only all African American, all female battalion.(3 (http://www.postalmuseum.si.edu/AfricanAmericans/p7.html#_edn3)) It was deployed overseas first to Birmingham, England then later to Rouen, France.(4 (http://www.postalmuseum.si.edu/AfricanAmericans/p7.html#_edn4))

When the women arrived in Birmingham in 1943 they saw letters stacked to the ceiling of the temporary post office. Much of the mail had been there for as long as two years waiting to be sent to soldiers in the field. The women were charged with delivering mail to approximately seven million American troops stationed in Europe. The successful delivery of the mail was an important morale booster for men on the front. One difficult task was sorting letters to guarantee that they were sent to the correct “John Smith” or “Tommy Jones”. To ensure delivery, women worked three shifts, seven days a week. Mary Ebo, a 6888th veteran, recalled that “the troops were moving so fast the mail couldn’t keep up with them . . . [the women of the 6888th] had a job that had to be done. It wasn’t a pretty job [but] we felt we were doing our part.”(5 (http://www.postalmuseum.si.edu/AfricanAmericans/p7.html#_edn5))

http://www.postalmuseum.si.edu/AfricanAmericans/14-WACs.jpg

Although they were contributing to the war effort in significant way, the women of the 6888th were still kept separate from the other American troops. The women slept in segregated barracks and ate in segregated dining halls. Major Early, when recalling her military career, remembered that “We didn’t mix it up. We were segregated two ways, because we were black and because we were women.”(6 (http://www.postalmuseum.si.edu/AfricanAmericans/p7.html#_edn6))


Are you saying that the story of this unit should have been included in Eastwood's films? Both of Eastwood's films were about battles in the Pacific Theater. How would he have worked in a story about a unit, that according to your link was fighting in France?

[Sultanosurf]

This thread is like summer re-runs. Hey Cine, scan through and see if anybody else had success with thoughts along your line...

[The Mockingbird]

Which episode was that?

Well, they did let the Globetrotters on the island once...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082502/fullcredits

[Clubbeat]

about Spike's comments is that is allows us to address the issue of race in film and other media. This is good to see, although the discussion this subject sparks, can be painful at times.

If we can get past the name calling, I think most who continually engage in this much needed dialogue will find it very educating. I've learned a few things about people's perceptions based on comments about race-related issues on this and many other threads.

As for making movies about African-American's contributions to the war effort in America, I would love to see a movie about the first predominately black units to see combat during the Vietnam conflict. I do not know what, if any of there soldiers did, but based on hearing from older members of my family who served in the jungles of SE Asia, it wasn't pretty for anybody especially for people of color.

[Diplomat]

I'd like to see more movies featuring black cowboys--not too many of those I'm aware of. The Herb Jeffries singing flicks are classics and "The Cowboy Way" referenced Bill Pickett but those are the only ones I can think of right now.

[22]

I'd like to see more movies featuring black cowboys--not too many of those I'm aware of. The Herb Jeffries singing flicks are classics and "The Cowboy Way" referenced Bill Pickett but those are the only ones I can think of right now.

The other one I can think of is "Unforgiven." Morgan Freeman played a cowboy. By the way, who made that movie?

[Jane Craig]

Don't forget Danny Glover in "Silverado," though that was a Lawrence Kasdan film.

[Produce man]

So, you're accusing Clint Eastwood of being a racist?

Maybe you are as ignorant as other posters have suggested. Would a racist have made "Bird"? Were the black characters in his Unforgiven, Million Dollar Baby and Blood Work racist? Would a racist make a World War II movie for the Japanese point of view?Maybe to Dap, Eastwood is just a WAR MOVIE racist....or maybe Morgan Freeman is really white.

[Sultanosurf]

Glover in Lonesome Dove, too.

Roscoe Lee Brown in 'The Cowboys.'

Bonus trivia (Easy actually) who was the actor who left the set of 'Silent Running' for a role he craved but dreaded in 'Cowboys,' since he would be one of the few people ever to 'kill' John Wayne on film?

[Pro]

Bruce Dern

[Sultanosurf]

Yeah, pretty easy. btw, Dern's autobiography "Things I’ve Said, but Probably Shouldn’t Have" is a killer read.

Come to think, I don't think they had any African-Americans in "Silent Running." Curses on that Doug Trumball...

[Clever Login Name]

I'd like to see more movies featuring black cowboys--not too many of those I'm aware of. The Herb Jeffries singing flicks are classics and "The Cowboy Way" referenced Bill Pickett but those are the only ones I can think of right now.

What, no love for "Blazing Saddles"? Shame on all of you.

[Jane Craig]

Ah, Cleavon Little.

I get no kick from Champagne... :rockon:

[Tripe Face]

I'd like to see more movies featuring black cowboys--not too many of those I'm aware of. The Herb Jeffries singing flicks are classics and "The Cowboy Way" referenced Bill Pickett but those are the only ones I can think of right now.


DIP! DIPLOMAT!

I am SHOCKED... Shocked that you have ignored Blazing Saddles... one of the greatest westerns EVER.

"Excuse me while I whip this out. EEE!"

Not only did it include Blacks, Asians and womenfolk... they also include homosexuals.

That's an inclusive movie!

[Clever Login Name]

You're a half hour late, bucko ...

[Zero]

It opens this week.... get your tickets and post your reviews here.

[Clever Login Name]

Okay, PT.