The Republicans Discuss Republicans Thread

[Kace]

Also for righties and conservatives and so on.

[Lazlo Toth]

Nelson Rockefeller died under suspicious circumstances. Remember this name: Megan Marshack.

[Kace]

Bump.

[Lazlo Toth]

Bump.


Yeah, that pretty well describes what Megan was likely doing.

[Stupid]

Kace, I really appreciate what you're trying to do with this post.

But I'm afraid this message board may have dipped to the non-issue flame war that has enraptured too many Americans these days.

I agree with McCain on tax cuts. I believe he's being forced to follow the current administration's beliefs in order to secure votes.

[Pro]

I agree with McCain on tax cuts.

Which McCain? The McCain who opposed then in 2001 and 2003 or the McCain who wants to extend them in 2008?

One thing I'd like to ask: Can anyone give me a positive reason why they support John McCain? Leaving opposition to Obama/Clinton out of it.

[Stupid]

Pro, sorry I wasn't clear. I liked McCain's position on the 2008 tax breaks.

[Stupid]

One thing I'd like to ask: Can anyone give me a positive reason why they support John McCain? Leaving opposition to Obama/Clinton out of it.

I would support McCain on the war in Iraq for these reasons:

1. We're there supporting what we've done already.
2. Stated goals or not, a stable democracy (American controlled of course) is a foothold in a volatile region of the world. We are now a huge buffer zone in the middle of hell. Let the people who want to kill Westerners try to combat the elite military force of the US. They will lose every time. Those cowards are only successful against unarmed civilians.
3. The Iraqi national military need to fill the role of the above mentioned US forces. Then we are done.

What I don't agree on, is that it will take the time frame McCain believes.

[rootboyslim]

Which McCain? The McCain who opposed then in 2001 and 2003 or the McCain who wants to extend them in 2008?

One thing I'd like to ask: Can anyone give me a positive reason why they support John McCain? Leaving opposition to Obama/Clinton out of it.

First off, go to your own thread!!!! :)

Second, I'm being a hypocrite since I went to the liberal thread first and am a registered unaffiliated voter posting here.

Third, HIs stand on abortion, the fact that he will msot likely keep taxes lower, while I do not want to stay in Iraq fro 100 years, to pull out troops too quickly will most likley be a disaster, his stance on keeping judges who legislate from the bench off the bench, the fact that he wants to tackle high costs of health care without making it a new government agency--though I may be swayed the other way on this.

[Angel's Hell]

woo hoo woo tang

[Kace]

......Bump.

[Another OMB]

1. Military experience and understanding, plus his position on Iraq. While liberals love to call conservatives "war mongers", someone who has actually served in a war, been shot down and spent years in a POW camp being tortured knows what war is really like. He's not going to send our soldiers off somewhere just because he can; he's been on the other side of it. His support for the surge, when few others were, shows his wisdom since it actually worked and will lead to our eventual success.

And when he talked about our being there for 100 years, he didn't mean at current troop levels. He meant maintaining a presence there just as we still do in Germany and Japan after 60 years. It gives us a base in an important, volatile region.

2. Experience. Obama can talk all he wants about changing politics in Washington, but McCain has done more than anyone else I know to actually work with Democrats on important issues. You may not like his positions, but you can't argue that he's got actual EXPERIENCE at reaching across the aisle, not just talking about it during the campaign.

3. Taxes. He wants to keep taxes low while reining in government spending, which is the best way to get the federal budget in balance, in my opinion. Raising taxes might SEEM like a good way to bring more money in to pay for more spending, but history has shown us that raising taxes usually brings in LESS money, not more. Couple that with higher spending, as Obama is proposing with his billions promised, and the deficit gets worse.

4. He's pro-life, as is his running mate.

5. Integrity. (some mistakenly use the word "character", which can be good or bad). When the Vietnamese offered to release him from the Hanoi Hilton, for propaganda purposes because he was an admiral's son, he refused to leave before men who had been there longer than he had. With the pain he was in, and being held in solitary for YEARS, I don't think I could have done what he did. But the fact that he did shows his integrity and honor.

[The Thrill]

OMB, you hit it on the head. It's proper conservatism done the right way.

Strong on defense, lower taxes, and LESS government spending. That's where President Bush went wrong (granted, the 9/11 attacks forced us to re-think our defense and form a whole new department), and where McCain needs to fix things.

Get back to what the GOP is supposed to stand for, avoid the occassional bull-headedness of the current White House, and we'll have one helluva man in the White House. (Hotness and MILFocity of the VP notwithstanding.) :whistle:

But also, I'm voting for McCain because the man's a hero. Sure, he's made some mistakes...haven't we all? But he's owned up to every one that I can think of. That takes a real man. That, and his more-than-outstanding service to this nation, earn him an honest-to-God salute from me.

I can't think of the last politician I liked so intensely. :thumbsup:

[Pro]

Why is he a hero? Because his plane got shot down?

When John F. Kennedy was asked if he was a "war courange" he said "It was involuntary. They sank my boat".

You'd think if McCain was, in fact, a "hero" he would have got the Medal of Honor. I'd call him more a "survivor" than anything else.

[Sultanosurf]

Jeez, Pro, you can't be serious. He's a hero, just like every one of those POWs, for surviving brutal beatings, finally cracking like they all did, and coming home and picking up their lives.

In McCain's case, he's even more heroic by turning down all the offers for release until others who were captured before him were sent home.

Argue politics all you want, but rethink that tack, quick.

[Pro]

Jeez, Pro, you can't be serious. He's a hero, just like every one of those POWs, for surviving brutal beatings, finally cracking like they all did, and coming home and picking up their lives. .

Well, we have different definitions of "hero" then.

[Sultanosurf]

Sorry, bud, but I'd venture that your definition is going to be different than most on this one.

BTW, far too many times I hear 'our heroes' used in scripts about troop deployments, even in military going to or coming back from motor pool assignments in Germany or wherever, and there I'd agree it's hyperbole.

[Pro]

Sorry, bud, but I'd venture that your definition is going to be different than most on this one.

To me, a "hero" is the guy who risks his life to save his comrades. Many heroes are posthumous. McCain survived. Not taking anything away from that, I admire survivors. But there were lots of survivors in Vietnam.

And my opinion is "different that most on this board"? So what else is new? ;)

[Produce man]

Pro-life, pro-gun, pro death penalty.

[Tippster]

1. Military experience and understanding, plus his position on Iraq. While liberals love to call conservatives "war mongers", someone who has actually served in a war, been shot down and spent years in a POW camp being tortured knows what war is really like. He's not going to send our soldiers off somewhere just because he can; he's been on the other side of it. His support for the surge, when few others were, shows his wisdom since it actually worked and will lead to our eventual success.Name one great President since Teddy Roosevelt who also served in the Military, and whose campaign was centered around that fact. Just one.
And when he talked about our being there for 100 years, he didn't mean at current troop levels. He meant maintaining a presence there just as we still do in Germany and Japan after 60 years. It gives us a base in an important, volatile region.The huge difference, of course, is that Germany and Japan wanted us there and are now among the strongest allies we have. We also propped up a "stable" regime in Iran a couple decades ago. How'd that work out?

2. Experience. Obama can talk all he wants about changing politics in Washington, but McCain has done more than anyone else I know to actually work with Democrats on important issues. You may not like his positions, but you can't argue that he's got actual EXPERIENCE at reaching across the aisle, not just talking about it during the campaign.True... and those efforts got him in very hot water with the GOP - see what happened in 2000. These days, however, he prefers to "play ball" with the Conservative wing of his party, to the point of nominating as his second someone who symbolizes everything he campaigned against in 2000. That's political cowardice.

3. Taxes. He wants to keep taxes low while reining in government spending, which is the best way to get the federal budget in balance, in my opinion. Raising taxes might SEEM like a good way to bring more money in to pay for more spending, but history has shown us that raising taxes usually brings in LESS money, not more. Couple that with higher spending, as Obama is proposing with his billions promised, and the deficit gets worse.Stop the lies. http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/a_new_stitch_in_a_bad_pattern.html

McCain will cut taxes far less. McCain will increase the deficit far more.
4. He's pro-life, as is his running mate.Well, he is now. He wasn't a year ago. Who knows what he'll be next year?

5. Integrity. (some mistakenly use the word "character", which can be good or bad). When the Vietnamese offered to release him from the Hanoi Hilton, for propaganda purposes because he was an admiral's son, he refused to leave before men who had been there longer than he had. With the pain he was in, and being held in solitary for YEARS, I don't think I could have done what he did. But the fact that he did shows his integrity and honor.
Ah, there's the old POW talking point we all know and love. Obviously if you weren't tortured in "The Hanoi Hilton" you have less integrity than someone who was. Torture will now be the standard by which all future candidates will be measured, just please don't have any of that Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder that we see in the vast majority of OTHER detainees from Vietnam -- you know, the ones who don't like John McCain because he's trying to cash in on their experience. Don't believe me? Go to the Wall on the Mall and do some interviews.

[Sultanosurf]

Name one great President since Teddy Roosevelt who also served in the Military, and whose campaign was centered around that fact. Just one.

Dy-urr -- Eisenhower?

BTW, does Roosevelt really count? He'd also been Police Commissioner, Asst Secy of the Navy, and Governor before inheriting the presidency after McKinley's long, painful death. McKinley could count himself, as the last Civil War veteran elected president.

[DW]

Well, we have different definitions of "hero" then.


Pro's idea of a "hero"?

http://content.clearchannel.com/Photos/disasters/Storms/Hurricanes/Katrina/looters_GI34.jpg

[Pro]

Pro's idea of a "hero"?



No I defined it above. If you had bothered to look.

[Another OMB]

The huge difference, of course, is that Germany and Japan wanted us there and are now among the strongest allies we have. We also propped up a "stable" regime in Iran a couple decades ago. How'd that work out?

Stop the lies. http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/a_new_stitch_in_a_bad_pattern.html

McCain will cut taxes far less. McCain will increase the deficit far more.


Ah, there's the old POW talking point we all know and love. Obviously if you weren't tortured in "The Hanoi Hilton" you have less integrity than someone who was. Torture will now be the standard by which all future candidates will be measured, just please don't have any of that Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder that we see in the vast majority of OTHER detainees from Vietnam -- you know, the ones who don't like John McCain because he's trying to cash in on their experience. Don't believe me? Go to the Wall on the Mall and do some interviews.

Taking your last point first, it boggles my mind how some on this board twist logic. McCain has integrity because of his actions while a POW. That does NOT mean "if you weren't tortured in 'The Hanoi Hilton" you have less integrity than someone who was." I'm not talking about anyone else, I'm talking about HIS integrity, as demonstrated by his actions. "Torture will now be the standard by which all future candidates will be measured"? Puh-leeze. There are lots of ways a person can demonstrate integrity.

As for Germany and Japan wanting us there--you actually think they WANTED us there as occupiers after WWII? Of course not. They do now. I'm sure it'll be the same with Iraq. SOME Iraqis see us as occupiers and want us gone. But many more are glad we're there, and I'm sure they want us to stay for protection. You said Germany and Japan are now among our strongest allies--exactly my point. Iraq can be, too, years from now once the senseless killing by Islamic extremists stops and Iraqis have time to reflect on their lives in freedom as opposed to Saddam's dictatorship.

As for spending and taxes, at least McCain is talking about trying to balance the budget and rein in spending. Obama is promising billions and billions in new spending. Can I be sure that McCain will balance the budget or get a handle on the deficit? Of course not. But I'm hopeful, and I have more confidence in his ability to do it than Obama's. Your link tells us the Tax Policy Center says McCain's plan would raise the deficit more than Obama's. But a Nobel Prize-winning economist says Obama's plan would put us into a recession. Which do we believe?

[Pro]

As for Germany and Japan wanting us there--you actually think they WANTED us there as occupiers after WWII?

Yep. They did. The Allies were the only thing standing between them and the Soviets. Not long after the end of the war, NATO was established and (West) Germany became an active member...so it wasn't just "us", it was British, (then) French, Belgian and German troops, along with U.S. troops, who were a deterrent to the Soviets breaking through the "Iron Curtain".

[Tippster]

Dy-urr -- Eisenhower?
Really? Eisenhower? Great? Why not then add Ford and the Bushes? Huh.

Talk about lowered expectations. What's his legacy again, since Kennedy got saddled with Ike's Bay of Pigs brainfart? I don't seem to recall....

[Sultanosurf]

Hey, I was just answering on a president elected solely on his military legacy, which certainly qualified Ike. JFK didn't have to pull the trigger on Bay of Pigs with its limitations. LBJ, Ford, Bush 41, and NIxon all served during WWII, but like McCain had plenty of experience in Congress (And elsewhere with Bush) before running for the White House.

Why so hard on Ike? He came through on a promise to get us out of Korea, and took us some tense years without a nuclear meltdown or much else. Maybe that's why his tenure is remembered as being so boring...

[Kace]

His tenure was during a time when Pat Boone and Fabian were rockin' the music charts. I blame the Beatles for not forming sooner. ;)

[Sultanosurf]

His tenure was during a time when Pat Boone and Fabian were rockin' the music charts. I blame the Beatles for not forming sooner. ;)

How can you forget Elvis, James Brown... and Liberace...

[Kace]

I was thinking of that point in time where Presley was in the military and the music had just died.

[Sultanosurf]

I was thinking of that point in time where Presley was in the military and the music had just died.

Why, that attitude is un-American!

http://images.eonline.com/eol_images/Planet_Gossip/20070808/293.liberace.cover.080807.jpg