Help with HD Rabbit Ears

[Ping-Pong Ball]

I need to purchase some HD Rabbit ears. I live in area where the local network affiliates are spread out and in all directions across the DMA. For example one is 50 miles to my west another 60 miles to my south and so on. I do not have any mountains or terrain issues to deal with. Also, I have another large market DMA that is about 75 miles away, will I be able to get any of their signals? What should I buy to get the job done. Putting a huge antenna on my roof is not an option.

For background, I got the cable bill the today and it had almost doubled!!!!!!!!! I called the cable company because I had signed up a year ago with their bundle & save program. Well, the year just came to an end, and while I still have my phone, cable, & Internet bundled, I am no longer saving. The first call I made to the cable company, I was on the phone for 20 minutes and was finally told the new bill was a mistake. The operator told me she would transfer me to a representative who could fix the error. The lady I was then transferred to said to me after I explained the situation, “What! They transferred you to the wrong department. I can’t help you.” And then she hung-up on me.

I then called the evil cable company back. After explaining the whole situation to the male customer service rep that answered my call, this rep told me there were no mistakes on my bill and there was nothing he could do and then said, “Shut-up and pay your bill!” He also went on to call me a liar when I explained the previous call I had just made. After the guy called me a liar and told me to shut-up, cross words were exchanged and the guy from cable company cussed me out. In full disclosure, I said some not so nice words back to the guy. The call ended with the guy quoting Dick Cheney by telling me, “Go *blank* yourself, stop being a cheap *blank*, quit your *blanking*, shut up and pay your bill!”

So I'm switching to satellite and need the ears so I can keep getting my local channels in HDs.

Thanks in advance for your advice :)

[rdale]

Unless you're on top of a mountain - there's no way you'll get any HD...

[TAFKA wacowx]

Terk makes a really good and good-looking set-top model. Do a search online and you can find a pretty powerful one you can make yourself (seriously) out of wire coathangers, wood and cooling racks.

You MAY be able to get stuff from 75 miles away...it all depends on pointing the antenna, their power level and weather conditions.

BTW, you may not even need to adjust or rotate your antenna. Here in Houston, I have most stations in one location, but others in Conroe to my north and they all came it at pretty good strength.

PPS BTW...there is no such thing as an HD antenna. What you want to do is find a good UHF antenna unless some of your locals broadcast HD in the 2-13 range (not the majority)...in which case, you might need to investigate a VHF option.

[Ping-Pong Ball]

Unless you're on top of a mountain - there's no way you'll get any HD...

That's what I was affraid of. I had a feeling that might be the case.

[TAFKA wacowx]

Does rdale know something about your area that I don't? HD signals travel great distances and I was able to pull in HD from Dallas in Waco.

This is not the first story I have heard of cable companies treating a customer so poorly. Dr. Joe Sobel at AW was once told by a cable company rep: "Why should we care what our customers want?".

Nice...real nice.

[MOCR]

An antenna is an antenna- there is no "HD Antenna". Rabbit ears are usually twin telescoping leads that sit on top of a TV set- not very useful for distant signals.

The scenario you describe would require an external antenna, most likely some sort of directional Yagi for good results. These are easily had (for a price) from most electronics dealers (including Radio Shack). You say such is not an option, but in general, digital signals do not travel as far as their analog counterparts. As rdale says, you will not likely be able to receive any non-local HD signals with "rabbit ears", and even with a fancy Yagi, distant HD reception may be problematic.

I find decent ANALOG TV reception at 60+ miles practically impossible, and I live on the very flat Southern Plains of Texas. I wouldn't imagine HD to fare any better...

[rdale]

Does rdale know something about your area that I don't?

No idea what area he's in.

HD signals travel great distances and I was able to pull in HD from Dallas in Waco.

With a set of rabbit ears on the TV?

[MattyD.]

First- You may not need rabbit ears as Directv is offering HD service in MANY market now and there are a ton more to come. Second, If you do need an antenna to receive rececption, you may wish to consider a powered antenna, set top is fine. As it will give you better range. You can get a terk as mentioned or just go to radio shack and for $50 yo can get a little orbital one that will work just fine.

The setup is very easy...
The antenna input goes into the back o fthe Directv Reciever, then have the receiver search for local channels and it will put them in order and download the guides for you.

If you truly plan on looking at Directv for service... I suggest that you look around... there are many deals and everyone is trying to out do the other deal. You might be able to find a deal for a standard box and an HD DVR together...

Good luck...

[News Is Broken]

For background, I got the cable bill the today and it had almost doubled!!!!!!!!! The call ended with the guy quoting Dick Cheney by telling me, “Go *blank* yourself, stop being a cheap *blank*, quit your *blanking*, shut up and pay your bill!”


Oh. My. God.

You want some free service for a while? I used to work tech support for a cable company back in the day. We had an executive complaints department there that handled just such experiences as yours. The complaints that this department handled were all read by the region's general manager personally. His typical reaction was to offer totally free service for a minimum of 3 months to keep your business. He'd also take great personal pleasure in firing the asshat you talked with. It's worth a try. The process is really easy - call tech support and immediately ask for a supervisor. Keep going up the chain until you get someone with Vice President in their title. Then talk to their boss - that's usually the system GM. Tell him what happened and that you're canceling your service and going with satellite unless he makes it right for you. Unless he's a complete retard, he'll go out of his way to keep you happy. Our GM did this for folks all the time.

It's just amazing how bad customer service has become. As a former rep myself I am just floored that someone would actually talk to a customer like that. Unreal.

[DoneThatToo]

antennaweb.org (http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx)

This site should help you with your antenna decision. Just plug in your zip and street address. It will give you directions and distance to the broadcast towers plus recommend an antenna.

[Brick]

PPB, for the last few months I've been using rabbit ears in my house and was able to only get our local NBC's digital signal...so yes, you could get at least 1 HD channel (well, 2 actually if you count the CW).

I just installed a directional VHF/UHF antenna on my roof and pick up all the locals both analog and digital...and being able to watch our soaring pro football team on Fox in HD has been a pleasure.

If, by chance, you lived somewhere close to me and wanted to purchase a rooftop antenna, I'd help you put it up and run the coax...assuming your roof isn't terribly steep and the snow were taken care of.

[PTP WX]

I need to purchase some HD Rabbit ears. I live in area where the local network affiliates are spread out and in all directions across the DMA. For example one is 50 miles to my west another 60 miles to my south and so on. I do not have any mountains or terrain issues to deal with. Also, I have another large market DMA that is about 75 miles away, will I be able to get any of their signals? What should I buy to get the job done. Putting a huge antenna on my roof is not an option.

For background, I got the cable bill the today and it had almost doubled!!!!!!!!! I called the cable company because I had signed up a year ago with their bundle & save program. Well, the year just came to an end, and while I still have my phone, cable, & Internet bundled, I am no longer saving. The first call I made to the cable company, I was on the phone for 20 minutes and was finally told the new bill was a mistake. The operator told me she would transfer me to a representative who could fix the error. The lady I was then transferred to said to me after I explained the situation, “What! They transferred you to the wrong department. I can’t help you.” And then she hung-up on me.

I then called the evil cable company back. After explaining the whole situation to the male customer service rep that answered my call, this rep told me there were no mistakes on my bill and there was nothing he could do and then said, “Shut-up and pay your bill!” He also went on to call me a liar when I explained the previous call I had just made. After the guy called me a liar and told me to shut-up, cross words were exchanged and the guy from cable company cussed me out. In full disclosure, I said some not so nice words back to the guy. The call ended with the guy quoting Dick Cheney by telling me, “Go *blank* yourself, stop being a cheap *blank*, quit your *blanking*, shut up and pay your bill!”

So I'm switching to satellite and need the ears so I can keep getting my local channels in HDs.

Thanks in advance for your advice :)

I have Directv, pull the locals in HD over the air. Quality is better, and I love Directv. Call the cable company back and tell them to take their no NFL network high priced garbage and stuff it.

You could pull all of those markets HDTV with the proper antenna and pre-amp.

I have a channel master 4228 (4-Bay UHF), I don't need an amp... you probably would. If the signal drops out, get a Channel Master 7775. My wife doesn't mind the new antenna, it is much less obtrusive than the old one! Research it first! PS - You may need the Channel Master 8-Bay UHF at your distances. People I talked to say it doesn't need to be pointed right at the stick, and can even pick up stations 90° of center.

The 4228 antenna is only 4 inches wide and a rectangle about 18" x 36".

[TAFKA wacowx]

With a set of rabbit ears on the TV?

Abso-freakin-lutely. You will find actually, that digital or HD signals propogate further. I could not receive the analogs from Dallas in Waco (maybe VERY snowy) but digitals on those good nights came in crystal clear.

In fact the FCC found that the digital signals propogate SO well, that they made a boo-boo here in TX: They gave 3 stations a digital channel 9 allocation (WFAA-Dallas, KCEN-Waco and KUHT-Houston) and the Houston station actually has to broadcast at half power to avoid interfering with the Waco station. Dallas and Waco may have similar issues.

Has the esteemed gentleman from the "flat southern plains of Texas" even tried receiving digital broadcasts? I would assume he hasn't since I had great success in the rolling hills of Central Texas.

I originally used a standard amplified antenna that you can pick up at Wal Mart for 10-15 bucks, but had fantastic luck with this set-top model from Terk.

http://rsk.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pRS1C-2926018w345.jpg

[MOCR]

Color me impressed TAFKA. Seriously, HD in West Texas?! No I have not tried. My experience with many flavors of RF suggests I would not be able to receive Amarillo, Midland or Abilene here in Lubbock. And judging by what's on the local analog, I have my doubts about their HD offerings.

As for me and my house, we have DISH with the local channels, but none of the local HD stuff is being offered from what I gather....

[TAFKA wacowx]

Color me impressed TAFKA. Seriously, HD in West Texas?! No I have not tried. My experience with many flavors of RF suggests I would not be able to receive Amarillo, Midland or Abilene here in Lubbock. And judging by what's on the local analog, I have my doubts about their HD offerings.

As for me and my house, we have DISH with the local channels, but none of the local HD stuff is being offered from what I gather....

If you already have an HDTV tuner it's worth a shot. With your locals, you will at least double your choices as most locals add at least an extra channel to their signal...as many as 5 here in Houston on the ION network channel. Even if you just get the Lubbock stations, you are likely to capture an extra 4 of 5 local choices...although inevitably 2 of them will be weather ;) With my HDTV tuner in Houston, I have around 30 choices OVER THE AIR...20 if you only include non-spanish language, but still an amazing amount for free-TV.

And, you just might be able to hit Midland or Amarillo. A rooftop antenna would serve you better, but even with that Terk model you will be able to pull in loads of stations you never saw before.

EDIT: So as not to lead anyone astray, only a percentage of those channels will be true HD...all will be crystal clear digital broadcasts, but only the network programing will be HD (where available)

[Stormtracker_Tony]

I've had quite a weird experience with digital tv..I was just talking about this a few days ago in the breakfast club, but figured I'd add it in here as well...I'm located on the border between the Columbia, SC market and the Augusta, GA market...I use a set of rabbit ears and with analog, I can get a few Columbia stations (kinda snowy) and one augusta station (kinda snowy, as well)...All of those columbia stations are coming in crystal clear on digital for me, yet the augusta station (that is more-clear on analog than some of the columbia stations) will not pick up in digital.....It puzzles me as to why this is happening..On a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 is so fuzzy that you can't see the picture and 10 being perfectly clear, why is a (rated 3) analog station picking up crystal clear on digital while a (rated 6) analog station not picking up at all on digital...Seems to me like the clearer the analog channel comes in, the better chance of picking the station up on digital...

[BSUStormChase]

Tony... My station is the similar way. We have a killer analog signal. However, our digital signal is very poor. The main reason for that is our engineering department is not broadcasting the digital signal at full strength. I think we are only broadcasting at 40%. We are supposed to go up to full strength in 2009.

That could be the same thing you are experiencing.

[TAFKA wacowx]

Seems to me like the clearer the analog channel comes in, the better chance of picking the station up on digital...

That is usually the case, but stranger things have happened. :D

[TAFKA wacowx]

Tony... My station is the similar way. We have a killer analog signal. However, our digital signal is very poor. The main reason for that is our engineering department is not broadcasting the digital signal at full strength. I think we are only broadcasting at 40%. We are supposed to go up to full strength in 2009.

That could be the same thing you are experiencing.

Probably for the same reason the station in Houston is not at full strength; interference with neighboring markets' signals. The big problem now, that wasn't one in the past, is that there are now twice as many stations broadcasting in the UHF and VHF spectrum. And until we can remove the analog signals from the mix, there will be some stations that will need to broadcast at lower power due to infererence in neighboring markets. I can't wait to see what we might be able to pick up in 2009.

[DoneThatToo]

I've had quite a weird experience with digital tv..I was just talking about this a few days ago in the breakfast club, but figured I'd add it in here as well...I'm located on the border between the Columbia, SC market and the Augusta, GA market...I use a set of rabbit ears and with analog, I can get a few Columbia stations (kinda snowy) and one augusta station (kinda snowy, as well)...All of those columbia stations are coming in crystal clear on digital for me, yet the augusta station (that is more-clear on analog than some of the columbia stations) will not pick up in digital.....It puzzles me as to why this is happening..On a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 is so fuzzy that you can't see the picture and 10 being perfectly clear, why is a (rated 3) analog station picking up crystal clear on digital while a (rated 6) analog station not picking up at all on digital...Seems to me like the clearer the analog channel comes in, the better chance of picking the station up on digital...

That is usually the case, but stranger things have happened. :D

You must remember that the digital and analog signals originate from separate transmitters. And as stated some folks do not pump the digital to full strength yet. February 19 2009 will be a very interesting day!

[TAFKA wacowx]

You must remember that the digital and analog signals originate from separate transmitters. And as stated some folks do not pump the digital to full strength yet. February 19 2009 will be a very interesting day!

But in almost every case, they still originate from the same towers/location so if your antenna is pointed in the right location for you to see the analog signal you would more than likely be able to get the digital, but the lower power is a problem for some.

The greater ability for digital receivers to process and use poorer signal sources is good for us though, with a greater possibility of pulling in signals from far away.

[TAFKA wacowx]

Anyone remember who I was arguing with a few years back?

Everyone Mark!

No, seriously...I had a heated discussion with someone here who was absolutely 100% convinced that WXPlus would be the end of the Weather Channel because everyone would be able to get their weather content for free...etc. I argued that it would not make any potential dent until 'must-carry' laws were passed because most people do not get digital signals over the air and rely on cable and satellite.

Anyone recall that? Forecastguy perhaps since you were a WXPlus person you might recall (I know it wasn't you)

This whole discussion just proves my point. Several people who actually WORK in TV have no idea if/how/to what degree they can receive their own station's digital signal. It's very simple and free to pick up higher quality HD broadcasting from a simple set-top antenna, but it still appears that most of the public, (mainly through ignorance of what is available) will stick with cable and satellite providers.

[MOCR]

Well last time I checked, local over the air stations don't offer movies like cable/satellite. Nor for that matter do they offer content that I care for. Only when Ken Burns offers up some sort of documentary ala PBS do I ever bother to switch local, and even then, I have the PBS channel as part of my Dish package.

My increase in TV viewing was AFTER getting the Dish upgrade that includes Tivo. We paid the little bit extra for the local stations in order to better record the few network shows we watch (Heroes, The Unit, The Office, etc).

Sure I could get an HD receiver and look to see what's around, but my thought is why? Quality aside, what content are local stations putting on their HD channels that rivals what's already on the analog side? I work part-time in the Spring for a combo here in Lubbock, and honestly, I can't fathom either side of that operation putting anything on HD that would interest me. Their main channels are mostly schlock, and I presume their HD channels are too. Of course, I would expect larger markets to offer better fare on HD, but is the same true for small-market operations barely getting by?

Now if there was a 24-hour Spongebob HD channel, maybe, just maybe we'd watch (my 6-yr old and I that is).

:D

[DoneThatToo]

Well last time I checked, local over the air stations don't offer movies like cable/satellite. Nor for that matter do they offer content that I care for. . . . . We paid the little bit extra for the local stations in order to better record the few network shows we watch (Heroes, The Unit, The Office, etc).

Sure I could get an HD receiver and look to see what's around, but my thought is why? Quality aside. . . :D


OTA broadcast has no content you care for (so you say) and yet you pay extra to get the compressed version of OTA programming you admit you like (again so you say). Glad you do watch at least some of your local OTA stations in any form. And quality is the only thing you would have to gain by watching OTA broadcast.

[Brick]

Primetime programming (that I never have time to watch in HD, but my wife does) and sporting events, primarily NFL, but golf, baseball and NAPCAR are a couple of fine reasons to receive local digital signals.

Even the buffleheads who sell you flat-screen TVs at Bestest Buy don't understand that an antenna offers the best digital signal (uncompressed) at the best price (free). The saleslady there was ready to throw punches, she was so absolutely sure that when the transition to digital takes place that nobody would be able to pick up anything over an antenna any longer. :frustrated:

[MOCR]

Allow me to clarify- we watch for the few network shows we like and pay the extra for the convenience of having them on Tivo. Skipping through the commercials is a GODSEND.

TAFKA alleges ignorance for lack of HD interest, but I think there is more to it than that. Aside from a 24-hour weather offering with commercials galore, what are stations putting on their HD channels?

[TAFKA wacowx]

Yes...all cable companies and satellite providers compress the local signal so you will never get as clear and superb a local HD signal as you will straight from the tower.

Watching LOST in HD and any primetime drama or movie 9even with commercials and editing) is sensational. I am far from a sports fan, but I actually linger more on sporting events when they are in HD.

MOCR...does your channel (your current employer) have a sub-channel with some sort of programming on your digital signal? You seem very vague about the offerings in your market. When we were in Waco, we offered our local Telemundo and a weather channel in additional to our ABC HD feed, the NBC had WX Plus and their HD signal, CBS offered two HD channels (CBS and CW) and the PBS has PBS local, PBS HD feed, PBS Kids and 'Create', a channel similar to HGTV and the like.

I'm not telling you to go out and buy a reciever...I thought you already had an HDTV with a tuner in it. If so, go to Wal Mart and buy a $10 antenna , hook it up and see what's out there. I think you might be surprised at what is offered...even in Lubbock.

[TAFKA wacowx]

Allow me to clarify- we watch for the few network shows we like and pay the extra for the convenience of having them on Tivo. Skipping through the commercials is a GODSEND.

I agree with that...just got a DVR with DirecTV (allowing my wife more choices as a stay at home mom) but I had been doing the same commercial-skipping on my DVD recorder hooked up to my HDTV reciever for the past 2 years or so.

What's really nice is I can record episodes from 'broadcast' and take them to friend's homes and they marvel at the clarity. I also saved myself some money, having every episode of Studio 60 on DVD and not having to buy the complete set...although I wouldn't complain if my wife did if for Christmas. :)

[MOCR]

Well I'm guilty of the "ignorance" part and no I have no HD receiver. While I have no idea what is available on HD here locally, I can say that I'm not about to spring mucho dinero just to have a better quality picture.

As a General class Ham, I understand all about antennas and like the suggested Terk model. I'm just not feeling compelled to get an HD receiver and fancy antenna for stuff I'm already getting via other means.

As with most everything broadcast-related, it's more about content and less about quality that drives media consumption. If there is local HD content that rivals cable networks such as Discovery or History channel, it is certainly news to me. I don't watch local OTA programs that much compared to the cable fare, but the little I do watch, I have yet to see any promos touting local HD fare.

You have my curiosity piqued TAFKA, I'll have to see just what exactly is available here.
:whistle:

Edited to add: As a complete aside- if you think HD TV is hard to get across to the masses, try operating the local market's first HD RADIO station! They don't even sell HD Radios here!

[Ping-Pong Ball]

Thanks for all the great advice!

I made the switch the Direct TV......not only are they much cheaper than cable, they're going give me all the stuff I need for free :) They will even come out on a Saturday for installation. Why didn't I do this sooner?

Since Mrs. PPB is still an anti-antenna-dendrite, I'm going to try the set-top receiver TAFKA wacowx mentioned.

If this doesn't work, I know of a dumpster where someone threw away some old rabbit ears, I'll just need a hand moving an old bath tub that's on top of them. ;) And maybe a tetanus shot.

Thanks again everyone,
PPB

[MOCR]

Cheap rabbit-ear antennae can also be had fairly cheap at most Goodwill stores or similar outlets...

[TAFKA wacowx]

Your wife will allow a Dish on the roof, but not an antenna? Some are pretty small and sexy looking:

http://i.walmart.com/i/p/00/02/66/16/03/0002661603007_215X215.jpg

Also, some are designed to work WITH your dish:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31M7MyC%2BX6L._SS384_.jpg

i.e....you won't even see them attached to your dish.

[MI_Wxman]

I bought an HD TV thinking I would have to buy the "HD ears" too. But I declined at the moment and went home to set the TV up. Low and behold... in the 108 to 112 channel range were all the local channels...in HD!

So I saved $50!

[Red Rover]

My daughter broke the main TV in our house, so this opened up an opportunity for me to pull the trigger on a HD flat screen TV. So, we will soon have one HD and one standard def. set.
Lets say a few months from now I buy a HD satellite subscription...does that mean I wont be able to see that programming with the standard set?
:withstupid:

[forecastguy]

Count me in Waco's camp...

I bought an HD antenna for $28... I get about 20 channels in high-definition, completely uncompressed. And for all my tv entertainment viewing, in the last 18 months, I have spent a whopping total of...

...wait for it...

$28.

I watch enough damn tv at work :mad:... I don't need to pay to watch more of it at home.

[Red Rover]

Count me in Waco's camp...

I bought an HD antenna for $28... I get about 20 channels in high-definition, completely uncompressed. And for all my tv entertainment viewing, in the last 18 months, I have spent a whopping total of...

...wait for it...

$28.

I watch enough damn tv at work :mad:... I don't need to pay to watch more of it at home.

well, I guess there is something more affordable in NYC:p

[MattyD.]

My daughter broke the main TV in our house, so this opened up an opportunity for me to pull the trigger on a HD flat screen TV. So, we will soon have one HD and one standard def. set.
Lets say a few months from now I buy a HD satellite subscription...does that mean I wont be able to see that programming with the standard set?
:withstupid:

CORRECT! The HD receiver will play the HD and SD programming to your HDTV, while the Standard Definition reciever TV will only play the SD programming to your other tv.

Make sure you watch the package deals that are out there. I would be sometime in Q1 they (Directv) will be offering multiple HD units to entice new customers, Dish does this now...

[Hard_reign2004]

CORRECT! The HD receiver will play the HD and SD programming to your HDTV, while the Standard Definition reciever TV will only play the SD programming to your other tv.

Make sure you watch the package deals that are out there. I would be sometime in Q1 they (Directv) will be offering multiple HD units to entice new customers, Dish does this now...

It depends on if the device you are using is a reciever or can by itself convert the hd single down to an analog picture for your standard television. Some will do that. That is how old TV's will continue to work after everything goes to HD. They will need a set top device that will convert the digital signal to analog.

[Todd W.]

Thanks for all the great advice!

I made the switch the Direct TV......not only are they much cheaper than cable, they're going give me all the stuff I need for free :) They will even come out on a Saturday for installation. Why didn't I do this sooner?

Since Mrs. PPB is still an anti-antenna-dendrite, I'm going to try the set-top receiver TAFKA wacowx mentioned.

If this doesn't work, I know of a dumpster where someone threw away some old rabbit ears, I'll just need a hand moving an old bath tub that's on top of them. ;) And maybe a tetanus shot.

Thanks again everyone,
PPB

PPB, did everything work out with your install on Saturday?

[Ping-Pong Ball]

PPB, did everything work out with your install on Saturday?

Yes! I found out too that if you offer the install guy a beer after he has finished the job (after all, it was Saturday evening) he won't charge you for any custom work he had to do. And since he was "on the clock" he won't take the beer either.

Since my locals don't offer HD on Direct TV, cross your fingers my waivers get approved so I can get the networks' HD DNS channels. Something tells me all my waiver request will do is get a station's GM to curse a few words before denying it.

Due to no windows on the south side of the well insulated Casa de Ping-Pong, my set-top antenna did not pick up any digital channels, unless I physically held the antenna out my window and pointed towards the south in the direction of the stations' towers.

The HD Channels on Direct TV that I do receive, come in much sharper & clearer than what my local cable provider offered.