Scheduling Shenanigans

[JoinUsForCake]

Say you glance up at the work schedule and suddenly see you've been put on for 6 days next week. You were given no warning or even asked if you had plans for that 6th day (which of course you do) and given zero input beforehand.

Do you have a right to fuss about it? Is this legal? If not is this cool or not to do to people? How many of your bosses do this type of thing?

[ January 25, 2007, 12:58 PM: Message edited by: JoinUsForCake ]

[News Is Broken]

Aw, that's total BS.

I'd walk into the bosses office and say "Hey boss, how much notice would I need to give you to schedule an extra day off?"

His answer would be "two weeks".

Then I'd reply with "then I'd appreciate the same f-ing courtesy when taking AWAY one of my personal days off as well."

Then I'd call in sick on day 6 just to be an even bigger pain in the butt.

Don't let this go. If you do, then you'll find yourself getting shafted like this EVERY week. It's one thing to ask me if I could work an extra day, usually I'll say yes because I could use the extra cash. But to force it on me? Hell no, uncool.

[Consider This]

First I'd ask to see if it's a mistake.

[Pro]

Federal law does not prohibit this. You may want to check with your particular state's wage and hour laws, though.

But federal law states that no covered employee can be forced to work over 6 straight days. It says nothing about scheduling.

[JoinUsForCake]

Pro, any clues as to where I can check on that online?

[ January 25, 2007, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: JoinUsForCake ]

[Spike]

Originally posted by JoinUsForCake:
Pro, any clues as to where I can check on that online?The US Department of Labor publishes most of the Federal employment law on their website:

http://www.dol.gov/

Your state will likely have a corresponding website for the state department of labor. Just do a Google search for "(your state) department of labor" or "(your state) labor laws" (obviously substituting the name of your state where appropriate. If they don't have the regs posted on their site, email or call them. Somebody there will be able to answer your question, because that's what they do.

I seriously doubt you'll be able to do anything about it. Time to organize.

[JoinUsForCake]

Thanks, Spike. Yup probably nothing I can do about it but beg somebody who doesn't care about the Super Bowl to work for me...

Agreed: Time to organize and get the F outta Dodge...

[NewsMom]

Go to the manager, just keep shaking your head, muttering "this is not possible, this is not possible," and explain that you've just discovered the schedule.

Explain that you have plans for this day, you've had those plans for a loooooooong time, you've made all kind of arrangements.... mutter, mutter, mutter, "this is not possible, it's just not possible..."

"There's just no way I can shift everything around at this point, short of a terrorist attack on the city....." (see, you ARE available if it's the story of the century).

I do like the idea of finding out how far in advance you have to request a day off, and pointing out that "well, that seems fair, but it ought to go both ways, don't you think?"

If your manager is a real jerk, and refuses to relent, you really ought to call in sick. BUT BEWARE, you'll probably also have to sit at home watching TV, because the timing's pretty suspicious, and warrants a little paranoia.

[JoinUsForCake]

It's totally bogus to ruin somebody's weekend a week and a half beforehand without warning, yes.

Hopefully I can find somebody to cover for me. Friggin' unbelievable.

[Brain Cramp]

Originally posted by JoinUsForCake:
Thanks, Spike. Yup probably nothing I can do about it but beg somebody who doesn't care about the Super Bowl to work for me...

Agreed: Time to organize and get the F outta Dodge...Do you think you've been scheduled to work on Superbowl Sunday because someone else requested the day off to watch the Superbowl?

Tell your boss that you didn't know you had to ask for a day off when it already is your day off and that you've made plans to host a Superbowl party. Ask him why you should have to cancel a party you planned for your normal day off because he's suddenly decided it's a work day for you without asking you whether you might already have plans for your day off. Then invite some friends over to watch the game so you haven't told him a lie.

[News Is Broken]

Originally posted by JoinUsForCake:
It's totally bogus to ruin somebody's weekend a week and a half beforehand without warning, yes.

Hopefully I can find somebody to cover for me. Friggin' unbelievable.Hey Cake, I'd cover for ya if I could. I could care less about the StupidBowl - I only watch it for the commercials anyway and those end up on line within a matter of hours after anyway. There's got to be someone in your shop who feels the same way - I can't be the only one.

Good luck.

[DoneThatToo]

Originally posted by JoinUsForCake:
Say you glance up at the work schedule and suddenly see you've been put on for 6 days next week. . .The bigger question is when was the schedule distributed? Just got it or has it been out for a few days??

But if you have already asked about the schedule and then call in sick . . . hmmm, would make me wonder about your illness.

[JoinUsForCake]

Originally posted by DoneThatToo:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JoinUsForCake:
Say you glance up at the work schedule and suddenly see you've been put on for 6 days next week. . .The bigger question is when was the schedule distributed? Just got it or has it been out for a few days??

But if you have already asked about the schedule and then call in sick . . . hmmm, would make me wonder about your illness.</font>[/QUOTE]I haven't raised the issue with the "higher-ups" just yet.

Schedule was put out week & a half before. Not quite enough time. Not to mention the whole blindsiding me aspect.

[ January 25, 2007, 03:06 PM: Message edited by: JoinUsForCake ]

[McCovey Cove Returns]

That's pretty ****ty. I used to have a manager that pulled stuff a day or two before you had the extra day or had to go from night side to mornings the following week. Think Office Space.

If you're in a union, you may have something spelled out in your contract. Otherwise, there generally speaking are no rules to scheduling other than the common courtesy of telling someone about a change. I know more than a few folks who never bother to check the schedules because out of habit, they expect to have the same shift, same days, ect.

[Another side]

Sorry ... 10 days notice that you'll have to work a day you hadn't planned to seems fair to me.

I'm going to guess other employees asked for the weekend off, and when they do, mangement has to rework the schedule. It they didn't, no one would get that extra or unscheduled weekend off.

As a manager, you rework the schedule and send it out. If you call everyone in one at a time, you'll get what you always get: a bunch of "Gee, I'd like to help you out, but ..." and the same one or two who say yes every time because they try and help the company and coworkers out when they can.

If it's a last-minute thing, I agree: ask first and hope someone needs/wants the overtime.

But 10 days notice? No way. Rework the schedule and post it.If the affected employ (you)can change with someone, great. Otherwise, that's the schedule.

[Spike]

Originally posted by Another side:
Sorry ... 10 days notice that you'll have to work a day you hadn't planned to seems fair to me.Then 10 days notice that he won't be there also seems fair. Therefore he should simply tell them he can't work that day, and they can find someone else.

[JoinUsForCake]

Another side,

I respectfully disagree in this way: I have agreed to surprise scheduled overtime in the past with less notice.

What is sticking in my craw (aside from it being Super Bowl Sunday and my having plans) is not even getting a heads-up. Would it have killed them to ask around first? To me that's blatantly disrespectful.

[News Is Broken]

Originally posted by Another side:

But 10 days notice? No way. Rework the schedule and post it.If the affected employ (you)can change with someone, great. Otherwise, that's the schedule.Huh? Why should Cake have to swap with someone? Couldn't the person who originally needed the day off do that? Sounds to me like someone is playing favorites - but that can't be, we all know that never happens in newsrooms... :rolleyes:

[TVMattNYC]

This is why EVERYONE needs a union.

[Produce man]

Unions... graemlins/moon.gif

[News Is Broken]

Originally posted by Produce man:
Unions... graemlins/moon.gif No? Well then, how about Onions?
http://www.foodsubs.com/Photos/yellowonion.jpg

[DoneThatToo]

Originally posted by News Is Broken:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Another side:

But 10 days notice? No way. Rework the schedule and post it.If the affected employ (you)can change with someone, great. Otherwise, that's the schedule.Huh? Why should Cake have to swap with someone? Couldn't the person who originally needed the day off do that? Sounds to me like someone is playing favorites - but that can't be, we all know that never happens in newsrooms... :rolleyes: </font>[/QUOTE]OK maybe the person who usually works asked for the day off last week, two weeks, however much time ago. As a manager you don't have to ask everybody else who wants to pick up the day. You make your decision as to what works best. Why, because that is your job as THE BOSS. Now if a swap can be worked out fine, no harm no foul. But somebody has to work. To say 'well call in sick' is just petty revenge and isn't going to hurt the manager, they will just stick it to somebody else.

[JoinUsForCake]

Few things:

(1) P-Boy being anti-union... SHOCKER!!!

(2) I am working on a swap. Hopefully it will work out.

(3) I don't fake sick even though 90% of the newsroom abuses their sick days.

(4) Schedule-making manager OUT OF TOWN til middle of next week!

[JoinUsForCake]

******** UPDATE *********

Found a replacement! I shall have a life!

Still kind of perturbed about the whole thing, though.

Whew! graemlins/icon_pidu.gif

[Spike]

Originally posted by JoinUsForCake:
Found a replacement! I shall have a life!
Until the manager that scheduled you comes back from vacation next week and says, "No, I wanted YOU to work that day. Substitution denied."

[McCovey Cove Returns]

That's when you exercise your middle finger....

By the way, wasn't a big union fan until I had to join. Yeah, the initiation fees and dues kind of get you to start, but the benefits make it worth it. I don't have to fight for a raise (it's automatic.. and quite nice too), don't have to fight over overtime, don't have to worry about short turnarounds, I get extra compensation for working overnights, the health plan is solid and very affordable, and there's a pension plan too.

[cinehead]

Originally posted by News Vampire:
That's when you exercise your middle finger....

By the way, wasn't a big union fan until I had to join. Yeah, the initiation fees and dues kind of get you to start, but the benefits make it worth it. I don't have to fight for a raise (it's automatic.. and quite nice too), don't have to fight over overtime, don't have to worry about short turnarounds, I get extra compensation for working overnights, the health plan is solid and very affordable, and there's a pension plan too.Yeah, me too. I never wanted to join a union, but life is better when you're in one. The first couple of stations I worked at just paid a flat salary, the had me put in lots of OT (50-60 hour weeks) with no comp time and OT pay.

Then, I went to a union shop. The benefits got better, I got OT pay. I still had to put it a lot of OT, but the pay took the sing out of it. All thanks to the union.

[amp]

Cake, GET BACK TO WORK, ya Angels-lovin' fool!

[Spike]

Originally posted by News Vampire:
Yeah, the initiation fees and dues kind of get you to start...When I started the organization effort at my last employer, I was surprised to learn that when you're a new group forming, NABET waives the initiation fee to remove that disincentive. You still have to pay dues, but not until the contract is signed and goes into effect. It wouldn't surprise me if the other unions did something similar.

[Brain Cramp]

Originally posted by Spike:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JoinUsForCake:
Found a replacement! I shall have a life!
Until the manager that scheduled you comes back from vacation next week and says, "No, I wanted YOU to work that day. Substitution denied."</font>[/QUOTE]Is there a possibility that could happen? Are any people here prohibited from switching with someone on their own?

On the other side of the coin, I used to work for a station where the ND made the weathercasters and sportscasters find their own replacements if they wanted to take time off. If no one wanted to fill in for them, they didn't get the time off. You can imagine how that went over. The ND rationalized it by saying that they really weren't "NEWS" people so they weren't really under his jurisdiction.

[+SN]

Originally posted by JoinUsForCake:
Few things:
(1) P-Boy being anti-union... SHOCKER!!!!I'm not big on unions either....HOWEVER there are shops/businesses that do abuse their employees and that is where unions probably should be organized.

Originally posted by JoinUsForCake:
Few things: (2) I am working on a swap. Hopefully it will work out.!Hope so. Been thru it several times however I didn’t mind helping out other people(even on short notice). I did however get a bit aggravated when those same people put up a ‘stink’ when it came time to help me out. I’m happily employed elsewhere now.

Originally posted by JoinUsForCake:

(3) I don't fake sick even though 90% of the newsroom abuses their sick days.That is really BAD. Someone always has to pay for this. Again, I'm glad I don't work at a shop like that anymore. It lowers overall morale for people who do play it straight.

+SN

[ January 26, 2007, 11:54 AM: Message edited by: +SN ]

[JoinUsForCake]

Originally posted by amp:
Cake, GET BACK TO WORK, ya Angels-lovin' fool!No problem, boss!

Let's Win Twins! NOT!

[JoinUsForCake]

Originally posted by Spike:
Until the manager that scheduled you comes back from vacation next week and says, "No, I wanted YOU to work that day. Substitution denied."Nah. They trust us when we make deals with each other. Just lucky I could pull it off.

[JoinUsForCake]

Originally posted by +SN:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Originally posted by JoinUsForCake:

(3) I don't fake sick even though 90% of the newsroom abuses their sick days.That is really BAD. Someone always has to pay for this. Again, I'm glad I don't work at a shop like that anymore. It lowers overall morale for people who do play it straight.

+SN</font>[/QUOTE]Realistically, I have health issues that make my sick days very valuable to me.

Aside from that - personally nothing pi$$es me off more than the same people calling in "sick" on Fridays all the time. Like my football coach used to say, "Rub some dirt on it!"

[AutoTranz]

Originally posted by News Is Broken:
I'd walk into the bosses office and say "Hey boss, how much notice would I need to give you to schedule an extra day off?"

His answer would be "two weeks".

Then I'd reply with "then I'd appreciate the same f-ing courtesy when taking AWAY one of my personal days off as well."Problem solved.

[SamG]

I am curious... how far in advance do schedules NORMALLY get posted? Obviously people go on vacation throughout the year, have you not had to fill in for them? How was that scheduling (and notification) handled?

[Pregnant Reporter]

Originally posted by Another side:
Sorry ... 10 days notice that you'll have to work a day you hadn't planned to seems fair to me.

I'm going to guess other employees asked for the weekend off, and when they do, mangement has to rework the schedule. It they didn't, no one would get that extra or unscheduled weekend off.

As a manager, you rework the schedule and send it out. If you call everyone in one at a time, you'll get what you always get: a bunch of "Gee, I'd like to help you out, but ..." and the same one or two who say yes every time because they try and help the company and coworkers out when they can.

If it's a last-minute thing, I agree: ask first and hope someone needs/wants the overtime.

But 10 days notice? No way. Rework the schedule and post it.If the affected employ (you)can change with someone, great. Otherwise, that's the schedule.heh. screw that. if you are going to assign a person to work their day off, with ten days notice, you damn well respect their personal life enough to approach them in person. don't hide behind the "I'm management and I have to fill this hole, with no consideration for humans on their day off," bull$hit.

good grief, I'm so glad you don't run our newsroom. mature adults are rare, but at least people are honest with each other, barter shifts on an honest level and nobody gets hosed like what you are describing.

hey Cake. I'd go one further. Not only are you hosting a SuperBowl party, you're hosting it for your identical twin brother's bachelor party in Las Vegas. If Another Side wants to try to force you to work, he can cough up money for plane tickets, the suite, the food, the booze, the entertainment and compensation for your friends who all took off for the weekend and planned to meet you there!

sheesh, what a jerk. I see photographers in my shop being railroaded like this left and right, and many of them roll over just to protect their own families. how I'd love to shove some reality down your throat on their behalf, ANOTHER SIDE.

[Sir Dropham Pants]

Originally posted by cinehead:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by News Vampire:
That's when you exercise your middle finger....

By the way, wasn't a big union fan until I had to join. Yeah, the initiation fees and dues kind of get you to start, but the benefits make it worth it. I don't have to fight for a raise (it's automatic.. and quite nice too), don't have to fight over overtime, don't have to worry about short turnarounds, I get extra compensation for working overnights, the health plan is solid and very affordable, and there's a pension plan too.Yeah, me too. I never wanted to join a union, but life is better when you're in one. The first couple of stations I worked at just paid a flat salary, the had me put in lots of OT (50-60 hour weeks) with no comp time and OT pay.

Then, I went to a union shop. The benefits got better, I got OT pay. I still had to put it a lot of OT, but the pay took the sing out of it. All thanks to the union.</font>[/QUOTE]I'm honestly not trying to rekindle the union/non- union debate. But I've worked in stations that are union and those that are not. My experience was, the union shop was the one getting schedules out four days before the following week. The union shop was the one asking people to work turn around shifts and extra days with little to no notice. The OT and benefits were worse at the union shop. That was just my experience; I know others are different. (puts on asbestos suit in preparation for union flaming to come)

[LittleBabyPuppy]

I hate when people complain about this crap.

We should be happy we have jobs! Ungrateful bastards!

[+SN]

Originally posted by JoinUsForCake:
Aside from that - personally nothing pi$$es me off more than the same people calling in "sick" on Fridays all the time.That is really bad and sucks for the person who has to pick up the slack . I'm surprised some workers can still get away with that.

+SN

[ January 26, 2007, 11:29 PM: Message edited by: +SN ]

[Oh Snap]

I wish I had first complained when my manager started treating me like this. I just went with the flow and accepted as part of the job - and I guess I'm seen as a rollover. Since then, my shedule has been drastically changed with little to no notice. My "weekends" have been changed for months at a time with about a week's notice. Or I'll get off work on my "Friday" and my schedule for the next "Monday" will have been changed afterwards. It's insane. Wish I had nipped it in the bud from the start...

[amp]

Originally posted by LittleBabyPuppy:
I hate when people complain about this crap.

We should be happy we have jobs! Ungrateful bastards!Lumberg! Get out! For the love of Tom H. Cruise, get out!

[writer2]

It's true that if you don't nip it, pleasantly and immediately, you will be seen as an easygoing chump. "Oh, schedule Mikey, he won't care!" Don't fall into that trap. Been there and I know.

[TopRamen]

At my shop, the Senior Producer was in charge of scheduling the line producers. I had worked every holiday in a two-year stretch. I was pleased when I checked the schedule, and had Christmas Day off. Two days before Christmas, someone comments, "So, you're working the holiday with me." I checked and the Senior Producer had given herself the day off and scheduled me to replace her--with no heads up. The updated schedule was brand new, as I checked often enough that I knew I had been off. I went to her desk and made sure everyone heard me. I said, "I don't mind working the holidays, but I DO mind if I'm led for several weeks to believe I am off, get the family all pumped, then discover a rewritten schedule has been posted just a few days before... and you happen to be the beneficiary." There were stares all around, and she brokered a deal with me that I would work a double on New Year's to have Christmas off.

[Another side]

Originally posted by writer2:
It's true that if you don't nip it, pleasantly and immediately, you will be seen as an easygoing chump. "Oh, schedule Mikey, he won't care!" Don't fall into that trap. Been there and I know.Absolutely true. And a conscientious manager will spot tendancies that are counter-productive to his or her newsroom and address them. In this case, you post the schedule with ample notice, and that's the schedule.

[Diplomat]

Originally posted by TVMattNYC:
This is why EVERYONE needs a union.Nope.

Then I'd have to get a second job to make money to donate to causes I support, in order to counteract the causes unions all too often force their members to support. I could not in good conscience sit back and do nothing while my money was funding leftist causes or candidates that don't respect our country or its people.

AS has it right. If there's a problem with scheduling, nip it in the bud ASAP. It can be done.

[JoinUsForCake]

Originally posted by SamG:
I am curious... how far in advance do schedules NORMALLY get posted?Around here the average is 10 days. It has gotten better. Previously we had been getting a week or less notice, and on-call schedules had been dubiously posted literally 18-36 hours before screwing somebody's weekend up at times. But we have since solved that problem. Not nearly as bad as in the past, and I think our managers are doing a much better job lately. I don't want this thread to seem like I am ripping my coworkers apart 'cuz I'm not. graemlins/hug.gif Even though amp is a Twins fan... :eek:

[ January 31, 2007, 08:03 PM: Message edited by: JoinUsForCake ]

[McCovey Cove Returns]

Originally posted by Diplomat:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by TVMattNYC:
This is why EVERYONE needs a union.Nope.

Then I'd have to get a second job to make money to donate to causes I support, in order to counteract the causes unions all too often force their members to support. I could not in good conscience sit back and do nothing while my money was funding leftist causes or candidates that don't respect our country or its people.

AS has it right. If there's a problem with scheduling, nip it in the bud ASAP. It can be done.</font>[/QUOTE]I'm not sure what union you've dealt with, if any broadcast ones at all, but mine simply requires me to pay my dues, my initiation fee, and my quarterly health insurance.

I get a newsletter periodically, but as far as I'm concerned, they only represent me at work. They don't force me to support anything. My political views and the causes I support are voiced when I go to the polls.

Unions don't fill out your ballots for you. If you want to be a drone, that's your choice.

[Diplomat]

I'm referring to the causes that are supported with money from member dues.

[Spike]

Originally posted by Diplomat:
I'm referring to the causes that are supported with money from member dues.Like what?

[Diplomat]

Originally posted by Spike:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Diplomat:
I'm referring to the causes that are supported with money from member dues.Like what?</font>[/QUOTE]Some labor unions have supported groups like Planned Parenthood, the ACLU and candidates for whom I would never vote. If some of my money from dues went to fund that sort of thing, I'd be morally obligated to give larger amounts to groups with whom I do agree.

[McCovey Cove Returns]

Well, in AFTRA's case our dues help keep our health insurance costs down and contribute to our pension pool.

[Diplomat]

Originally posted by News Vampire:
Well, in AFTRA's case our dues help keep our health insurance costs down and contribute to our pension pool.And that's fine. My friends in AFTRA tell me the same as what you have said. That is commendable on AFTRA's part.

I've had friends in unions that used dues money to support leftist causes and candidates and it bothered them deeply. I can understand that, especially since some of those causes and candidates wouldn't acknowledge or respect the rights of anyone opposed to their agendas.

[ February 01, 2007, 10:45 AM: Message edited by: Diplomat ]

[TVMattNYC]

Originally posted by Diplomat:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by News Vampire:
Well, in AFTRA's case our dues help keep our health insurance costs down and contribute to our pension pool.And that's fine. My friends in AFTRA tell me the same as what you have said. That is commendable on AFTRA's part.

I've had friends in unions that used dues money to support leftist causes and candidates and it bothered them deeply. I can understand that, especially since some of those causes and candidates wouldn't acknowledge or respect the rights of anyone opposed to their agendas.</font>[/QUOTE]Which unions? I belong to THREE unions, NONE of which use member money for political causes.

[Spike]

Originally posted by TVMattNYC:
Which unions? I belong to THREE unions, NONE of which use member money for political causes.Yes, I would be curious to know which unions as well. When my group tried to organize, this issue came up, and we were assured that our union dues would NOT be used as political donations to any group.

I hope Diplomat will be more specific. Political contributions are fairly easy to track, so there should be some evidence of these claims.

[Diplomat]

One of the unions in question is the far, far-left NEA, which has supported pro-abortion measures. I've known people who have left the state and local affiliates of this outfit because of its endorsement of far-left candidates and issues that have nothing to do with education.

[Spike]

But you haven't had any bad experiences with television unions, like the ones people here might be interested in learning about?

[Diplomat]

Originally posted by Spike:
But you haven't had any bad experiences with television unions, like the ones people here might be interested in learning about?If people want to join a union, that is fine. I respect that right. I also expect them to respect the RIGHT of people NOT to join one.

After all, this IS America.

[LunchPenalty]

My televison union donates money to democratic candidates and causes. In fact, there is a stack of "Vote Democratic" bumper stickers in the engineering office...free for the taking...

I like them anyway.

[Spike]

Originally posted by Diplomat:
If people want to join a union, that is fine. I respect that right. I also expect them to respect the RIGHT of people NOT to join one.You don't have to join a union. Federal law says so.

[Diplomat]

Originally posted by Spike:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Diplomat:
If people want to join a union, that is fine. I respect that right. I also expect them to respect the RIGHT of people NOT to join one.You don't have to join a union. Federal law says so.</font>[/QUOTE]True.

However, there are those who don't respect the right of people to join or not to join.

[TVMattNYC]

Originally posted by LunchPenalty:
My televison union donates money to democratic candidates and causes. In fact, there is a stack of "Vote Democratic" bumper stickers in the engineering office...free for the taking...

I like them anyway.What union is that?

[LunchPenalty]

The International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, or IBEW.

[TVMattNYC]

Originally posted by LunchPenalty:
The International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, or IBEW.Oy. I stand corrected. ONE of my unions (IBEW) donates to political causes.

[Spike]

Originally posted by Diplomat:
However, there are those who don't respect the right of people to join or not to join.How is that? They can't force you to join. It's against the law. If you don't want to join, don't join. How could someone not respect your right to not join, when it's out of their hands?

Let me ask you a question. If a company is mistreating its employees, what should they do about it?

[TVMattNYC]

Originally posted by Spike:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Diplomat:
However, there are those who don't respect the right of people to join or not to join.How is that? They can't force you to join. It's against the law. If you don't want to join, don't join. How could someone not respect your right to not join, when it's out of their hands?

Let me ask you a question. If a company is mistreating its employees, what should they do about it?</font>[/QUOTE]I'll tell you WHO is not respecting people's rights to organize: EMPLOYERS ... and their blatantly illegal attempts to scare employees out of organizing. We see it all the time.

[Diplomat]

Originally posted by Spike:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Diplomat:
However, there are those who don't respect the right of people to join or not to join.How is that? They can't force you to join. It's against the law. If you don't want to join, don't join. How could someone not respect your right to not join, when it's out of their hands?

Let me ask you a question. If a company is mistreating its employees, what should they do about it?</font>[/QUOTE]First of all, I've known people who worked at nonunion auto factories who were threatened by fellow employees who were pro-union. I don't necessarily think the unions themselves sanctioned that stuff, but those pro-union people should've been arrested and fired for making threats.

When a company mistreats its employees, they can take it to court or look for another job. I've worked for companies that didn't treat its employees well. I looked for another job. It was MY responsibility. Nobody forced me to work for those companies.

[ February 01, 2007, 04:58 PM: Message edited by: Diplomat ]

[Diplomat]

Originally posted by TVMattNYC:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by LunchPenalty:
The International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, or IBEW.Oy. I stand corrected. ONE of my unions (IBEW) donates to political causes.</font>[/QUOTE]And if I were a member of a union that donated to political causes which I found repugnant, I'd be morally obligated to get a second job to make money to give an equal or greater amount to causes I support to counteract the union's bad behavior.

[Spike]

Originally posted by Diplomat:
When a company mistreats its employees, they can take it to court or look for another job. I've worked for companies that didn't treat its employees well. I looked for another job. It was MY responsibility. Nobody forced me to work for those companies.Good. That's what I thought you would say.

And if your company gets a union, and you don't like it, you can always look for another job. Nobody is forcing you to work for those companies either.

[Diplomat]

Originally posted by Spike:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Diplomat:
When a company mistreats its employees, they can take it to court or look for another job. I've worked for companies that didn't treat its employees well. I looked for another job. It was MY responsibility. Nobody forced me to work for those companies.Good. That's what I thought you would say.

And if your company gets a union, and you don't like it, you can always look for another job. Nobody is forcing you to work for those companies either.</font>[/QUOTE]Exactly. Glad we agree. smile.gif

It's up to individual people to make their careers happy and successful.