2008 DMA's RELEASED

[thenewsleader12345]

1 New York
2 Los Angeles
3 Chicago
4 Philadelphia
5 Dallas-Ft. Worth
6 San Francisco
7 Boston (Manchester)
8 Atlanta
9 Washington, DC (Hagrstwn)
10 Houston
11 Detroit
12 Phoenix (Prescott)
13 Tampa-St. Pete (Sarasota)
14 Seattle-Tacoma
15 Minneapolis-St. Paul
16 Miami-Ft. Lauderdale
17 Cleveland-Akron (Canton)
18 Denver
19 Orlando-Daytona Bch-Melbrn
20 Sacramnto-Stkton-Modesto
21 St. Louis
22 Pittsburgh
23 Portland, OR
24 Baltimore
25 Charlotte
26 Indianapolis
27 San Diego
28 Raleigh-Durham (Fayetvlle)
29 Hartford & New Haven
30 Nashville
31 Kansas City
32 Columbus, OH
33 Cincinnati
34 Milwaukee
35 Salt Lake City
36 Greenvll-Spart-Ashevll-And
37 San Antonio
38 West Palm Beach-Ft. Pierce
39 Grand Rapids-Kalmzoo-B.Crk
40 Birmingham (Ann, Tusc)
41 Harrisburg-Lncstr-Leb-York
42 Norfolk-Portsmth-Newpt Nws
43 Las Vegas
44 Albuquerque-Santa Fe
45 Oklahoma City
46 Greensboro-H.Point-W.Salem
47 Memphis
48 Louisville
49 Jacksonville
50 Buffalo
51 Austin
52 Providence-New Bedford
53 New Orleans
54 Wilkes Barre-Scranton
55 Fresno-Visalia
56 Albany-Schenectady-Troy
57 Little Rock-Pine Bluff
58 Knoxville
59 Richmond-Petersburg
60 Tulsa
61 Mobile-Pensacola (Ft Walt)
62 Dayton
63 Ft. Myers-Naples
64 Lexington
65 Charleston-Huntington
66 Flint-Saginaw-Bay City
67 Roanoke-Lynchburg
68 Tucson (Sierra Vista)
69 Wichita-Hutchinson Plus
70 Green Bay-Appleton
71 Des Moines-Ames
72 Toledo
73 Honolulu
74 Springfield, MO
75 Omaha
76 Portland-Auburn
77 Spokane
78 Rochester, NY
79 Paducah-Cape Girard-Harsbg
80 Syracuse
81 Columbia, SC
82 Shreveport
83 Huntsville-Decatur (Flor)
84 Champaign&Sprngfld-Decatur
85 Madison
86 Chattanooga
87 Cedar Rapids-Wtrlo-IWC&Dub
88 Harlingen-Wslco-Brnsvl-McA
89 South Bend-Elkhart
90 Jackson, MS
91 Tri-Cities, TN-VA
92 Burlington-Plattsburgh
93 Colorado Springs-Pueblo
94 Baton Rouge
95 Waco-Temple-Bryan
96 Davenport-R.Island-Moline
97 Savannah
98 El Paso (Las Cruces)
99 Johnstown-Altoona-St Colge
100 Charleston, SC

http://www.nielsenmedia.com/nc/nmr_static/docs/2007-2008_DMA_Ranks.xls

[Pinkie]

Yeah! I just magically moved up to a bigger market! graemlins/icon_kidra.gif

[Wedge]

A couple of observations:

1. Charlotte continues to grow like crazy. Moved ahead of naptown this year and most likely will pass Baltimore next year.
2. Las Vegas = Charlotte on steroids & will be top 40 in 2 years.
3. Buffalo will be out of the top 50 next year. Welcome Austin.
4. New Orleans made a nice gain.
5. What's up with Memphis?

[HookEcho]

LOL...look at Lima go!!!! :D

[kmfdmatt]

And how many of us in hyphenated markets are sick to death of hearing "you only care about that other city"?

[News Is Broken]

Phoenix up one more to 12... sigh. Now we'll have to start showing more car chases.

[ewink]

Originally posted by Wedge:
A couple of observations:

2. Las Vegas = Charlotte on steroids & will be top 40 in 2 years.No it won't. Vegas was 43 in the 2007 ranking too. Vegas is really grown as much as it can (there is actually limited land space) and with their infrastructure issues I am betting money that their next move will be down.

[production]

Originally posted by ewink:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Wedge:
A couple of observations:

2. Las Vegas = Charlotte on steroids & will be top 40 in 2 years.No it won't. Vegas was 43 in the 2007 ranking too. Vegas is really grown as much as it can (there is actually limited land space) and with their infrastructure issues I am betting money that their next move will be down.</font>[/QUOTE]There is still plenty of space.. though I am surprised they didn't move at all.

[Wedge]

Obviously you didn't click on the link to see actual household growth.

43 Las Vegas (2007 homes) 671,630 (2008 homes)707,470

Vegas added over 35,000 households in one year.

Of the markets in front of them, Norfolk added 5K, Harrisburg added 10k and Birmingham added 7K. Vegas is growing at over 3 times the pace of all the markets in front of them.

[The Thrill]

Back down to 70!? All right, who's been moving out?!? :eek:

[Desert Rat]

News,

I also work in Phoenix...

As for the car chases, lucky us huh?

[News Is Broken]

Yeah Desert Rat, this place is becoming more LA each day. Beginning to feel as though it's time to move on. I moved away from LA for a reason and that reason seems to be slowly finding it's way here.

[Poo(h)]

Any gigs in Glendive? I could use a slower pace .. and a trust fund, obviously...

[Jbtornado]

I dont see how Vegas and Phoenix continue this trend forever, they have grown too quickly for their own good and infrastructure, Also the lack of water for those municipalities will eventually catch up to them...

Anyone want to post the numbers for the small markets below 100? I can't get it it to work on my PC so someone posting it sure be alot easier:)

[Roy Hobbs]

A staggering move for Anchorage from 155 to 150!

[HookEcho]

from 100 on down...

100 Charleston, SC
101 Evansville
102 Ft. Smith-Fay-Sprngdl-Rgrs
103 Myrtle Beach-Florence
104 Lincoln & Hastings-Krny
105 Greenville-N.Bern-Washngtn
106 Youngstown
107 Ft. Wayne
108 Tallahassee-Thomasville
109 Springfield-Holyoke
110 Reno
111 Tyler-Longview(Lfkn&Ncgd)
112 Lansing
113 Boise
114 Sioux Falls(Mitchell)
115 Augusta
116 Traverse City-Cadillac
117 Peoria-Bloomington
118 Montgomery-Selma
119 Fargo-Valley City
120 Eugene
121 Macon
122 SantaBarbra-SanMar-SanLuOb
123 Lafayette, LA
124 Monterey-Salinas
125 Bakersfield
126 Yakima-Pasco-Rchlnd-Knnwck
127 La Crosse-Eau Claire
128 Columbus, GA (Opelika, AL)
129 Corpus Christi
130 Chico-Redding
131 Amarillo
132 Rockford
133 Columbus-Tupelo-West Point
134 Wausau-Rhinelander
135 Wilmington
136 Monroe-El Dorado
137 Columbia-Jefferson City
138 Duluth-Superior
139 Topeka
140 Medford-Klamath Falls
141 Beaumont-Port Arthur
142 Erie
143 Sioux City
144 Palm Springs
145 Joplin-Pittsburg
146 Albany, GA
147 Salisbury
148 Lubbock
149 Wichita Falls & Lawton
150 Anchorage
151 Terre Haute
152 Bangor
153 Rochestr-Mason City-Austin
154 Panama City
155 Bluefield-Beckley-Oak Hill
156 Binghamton
157 Odessa-Midland
158 Minot-Bismarck-Dickinson
159 Wheeling-Steubenville
160 Biloxi-Gulfport
161 Sherman-Ada
162 Gainesville
163 Idaho Falls-Pocatello
164 Abilene-Sweetwater
165 Yuma-El Centro
166 Clarksburg-Weston
167 Missoula
168 Hattiesburg-Laurel
169 Utica
170 Billings
171 Quincy-Hannibal-Keokuk
172 Dothan
173 Elmira (Corning)
174 Jackson, TN
175 Rapid City
176 Lake Charles
177 Watertown
178 Harrisonburg
179 Marquette
180 Alexandria, LA
181 Charlottesville
182 Jonesboro
183 Bowling Green
184 Greenwood-Greenville
185 Lima
186 Meridian
187 Grand Junction-Montrose
188 Laredo
189 Lafayette, IN
190 Parkersburg
191 Great Falls
192 Bend, OR
193 Twin Falls
194 Butte-Bozeman
195 Eureka
196 Cheyenne-Scottsbluff
197 San Angelo
198 Casper-Riverton
199 Mankato
199 Ottumwa-Kirksville
201 St. Joseph
202 Zanesville
203 Fairbanks
204 Victoria
205 Presque Isle
206 Helena
207 Juneau
208 Alpena
209 North Platte
210 Glendive

[Desert Rat]

News,

I hear you on becoming more like LA...I still enjoy living here though, always wanted to retire here but now starting to have my doubts about that.

[Spike]

Originally posted by Wedge:
5. What's up with Memphis?It's going to be destroyed by a massive earthquake, a disaster the likes of which this country hasn't seen since the Civil War.

[LENSCRAFTER]

Originally posted by Wedge:
A couple of observations:

1. Charlotte continues to grow like crazy. Moved ahead of naptown this year and most likely will pass Baltimore next year.
This is the market that really fascinates me. They are now officially (and barely) a Top 25. Pretty impressive.

[Audacity]

I used to work in a market that has lost enough population to drop 9 slots. I'm pretty sure it was the horrendous news product coming from my station and the guys across the street that caused the residents to leave in droves. :D

[McCovey Cove Returns]

Dallas is obviously growing. Top 5 now? OR did they pick up a county from another DMA?

[thenewsleader12345]

dallas is growing by leaps and bounds..thats why the move up. the surrounding cities to be more exact, are booming with development.

[PCTallyWakoBakoFresnoFreeSoFloBINY]

Originally posted by Wedge:
A couple of observations:

1. Charlotte continues to grow like crazy. Moved ahead of naptown this year and most likely will pass Baltimore next year.
2. Las Vegas = Charlotte on steroids & will be top 40 in 2 years.
3. Buffalo will be out of the top 50 next year. Welcome Austin.
4. New Orleans made a nice gain.
5. What's up with Memphis?Once the King died, Memphis matters less and less. Crime, corruption at all levels of government, and the weather sucks. 105 degrees with tons of humidity in the summer and gray and gloomy in the winter. One nice week in the spring and fall. People are not moving out to the suburbs but out of the market. The numbers don't lie. Get out while you can !

[McCovey Cove Returns]

Originally posted by happynews:
dallas is growing by leaps and bounds..thats why the move up. the surrounding cities to be more exact, are booming with development.That's what I figured. There's lots of room to grow in the Metroplex!

[Omega Man]

The metroplex is one of the finer urban hells on the planet.

[News Is Broken]

Originally posted by Jbtornado:
I dont see how Vegas and Phoenix continue this trend forever, they have grown too quickly for their own good and infrastructure.
Well as long as the developers have lobbyists bending the ears of the state legislature and folks from LA continue to leave Schwarzenegger's sinking ship, Phoenix will continue it's upward march. I doubt we'll bust the top 5 but a top ten isn't out of the realm of possiblity for this area. There's still PLENTY of undeveloped desert out here. I just hope I'm not here to see it.

[foxravens]

The Norfolk market is one that always has baffled me.

They have somewhere around 500,000 people in military households, and they are considered "transient", so Neilson does not recognize them.
I wonder how much bigger that market would be if they were included?

BTW-it is the largest market in the country without major league sports.

[Pro]

There is also the situation with border markets...like El Paso, San Diego, Buffalo, Rio Grande Valley, TX...that cannot count the Canadian/Mexican households in their veiweing areas.

[Roy Hobbs]

Originally posted by foxravens:
The Norfolk market is one that always has baffled me.

They have somewhere around 500,000 people in military households, and they are considered "transient", so Neilson does not recognize them.
I wonder how much bigger that market would be if they were included?

BTW-it is the largest market in the country without major league sports.Used to be a million in military households. They slipped from #39 to #42 over the past 15 years with the end of the Cold War.

Way back they had the ABA's Virginia Squires basketball club.

[foxravens]

I was a HUGE Squires fan!
Dr J
George Gervin
Charlie Scott
All started out with the Squires.

God, how I loved that team!

[Hank Scorpio]

Originally posted by Pro:
There is also the situation with border markets...like El Paso, San Diego, Buffalo, Rio Grande Valley, TX...that cannot count the Canadian/Mexican households in their veiweing areas.This hurts Detroit big time. Well this and everybody losing their factory jobs.

[Hank Scorpio]

Originally posted by foxravens:

BTW-it is the largest market in the country without major league sports.Norfolk market size: 42

I guess you forgot about:

Hartford (29)
Greenville (36)
West Palm (38)
Grand Rapids (39)
Birmingham (40)
Harrisburg (41)

Make that the 7th largest market without major league spx.

[Nanook of the North]

Are there really that many people moving to Alaska? Anchorage jumped four markets!

One more thing, is Green Bay the smallest market with major league sports?

[ August 27, 2007, 07:12 PM: Message edited by: Nanook of the North ]

[foxravens]

Originally posted by Hank Scorpio:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by foxravens:

BTW-it is the largest market in the country without major league sports.Norfolk market size: 42

I guess you forgot about:

Hartford (29)
Greenville (36)
West Palm (38)
Grand Rapids (39)
Birmingham (40)
Harrisburg (41)

Make that the 7th largest market without major league spx.</font>[/QUOTE]Wow.
Sorry.
My mistake.

BTW- what's "spx"??

[ August 27, 2007, 07:15 PM: Message edited by: foxravens ]

[The Fedora]

Originally posted by Omega Man:
The metroplex is one of the finer urban hells on the planet.I am right now sitting on the patio at Jake's in Uptown. Dallas looks pretty nice from here...

[Hank Scorpio]

Originally posted by foxravens:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Hank Scorpio:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by foxravens:

BTW-it is the largest market in the country without major league sports.Norfolk market size: 42

I guess you forgot about:

Hartford (29)
Greenville (36)
West Palm (38)
Grand Rapids (39)
Birmingham (40)
Harrisburg (41)

Make that the 7th largest market without major league spx.</font>[/QUOTE]Wow.
Sorry.
My mistake.

BTW- what's "spx"??</font>[/QUOTE]Spx is an abbrev. for sports. There's also wx for weather.

[Meaty Urologist]

Originally posted by foxravens:
BTW- what's "spx"??It's short for "Hispanic." He thinks none of those markets have Mexicans.

[Hank Scorpio]

Sick and wrong and hilarious.

[Jax]

Originally posted by ewink:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Wedge:
A couple of observations:

2. Las Vegas = Charlotte on steroids & will be top 40 in 2 years.No it won't. Vegas was 43 in the 2007 ranking too. Vegas is really grown as much as it can (there is actually limited land space) and with their infrastructure issues I am betting money that their next move will be down.</font>[/QUOTE]We're not running out of room Wink. Plenty of room north and south. We're about to see a massive build up in the southern portion of town that's going to rival Summerlin (Henderson just annexed the area) and Coyote Springs is going to come on line in the next 10 years giving us 100k more houses in the DMA. Not to mention the small developments going up in the north and southwest part of town.

As for the water issue, we're going to rape Northern Nevada's water to cure that thirst.

Miss ya out here...

[Pro]

Originally posted by Nanook of the North:
One more thing, is Green Bay the smallest market with major league sports?Yes. When it started, the NFL was made up mostly of towns in the upper midwest. Green Bay was the only survivor.

The second smallest market is New Orleans.

And since we're talking about major league sports and market size, here are the leagues and the 3 largest market they are NOT in:

MLB: Orlando (#19), Sacramento (#20), Portland (#23)
NFL: Los Angeles (#2), Orlando, Sacramento.
NBA: Tampa-St.Pete (#13), St. Louis (#21), Pittsburgh (#22)
NHL: Houston (#10), Seattle (#14), Cleveland (#17).

[ August 28, 2007, 02:00 AM: Message edited by: Pro ]

[ewink]

Originally posted by Jax:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ewink:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Wedge:
A couple of observations:

2. Las Vegas = Charlotte on steroids & will be top 40 in 2 years.No it won't. Vegas was 43 in the 2007 ranking too. Vegas is really grown as much as it can (there is actually limited land space) and with their infrastructure issues I am betting money that their next move will be down.</font>[/QUOTE]We're not running out of room Wink. Plenty of room north and south. We're about to see a massive build up in the southern portion of town that's going to rival Summerlin (Henderson just annexed the area) and Coyote Springs is going to come on line in the next 10 years giving us 100k more houses in the DMA. Not to mention the small developments going up in the north and southwest part of town.

As for the water issue, we're going to rape Northern Nevada's water to cure that thirst.

Miss ya out here...</font>[/QUOTE]Oh lord. No water and another Summerlin... Poor Vegas.

Miss you guys too! I move to get more storms, and then you guys get the king lightning storm. Bah, I say!

[TAFKA wacowx]

Originally posted by Jax:
As for the water issue, we're going to rape Northern Nevada's water to cure that thirst.
You say it like northern Nevada isn't also a desert. graemlins/eusa_whistle.gif

[production]

It's not that.. it's just anyone from Vegas doesn't give a crap about what happens outside of Clark County.

[Jax]

Originally posted by The Artist Formerly Known as wacowx:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Jax:
As for the water issue, we're going to rape Northern Nevada's water to cure that thirst.
You say it like northern Nevada isn't also a desert. graemlins/eusa_whistle.gif </font>[/QUOTE]You've clearly never been to north eastern Nevada...

And yes, people do care about what happens outside of Clark County, just not the money hungry Las Vegas Valley Water District.

Near Pioche, NV

http://ucjeps.berkeley.edu/Purpus/images/col-91.jpg

Near Ely, NV

http://www.nevadawilderness.org/eastern/shoshon2.jpg

Near Panaca, NV (my home town - elevation 5000 ft.)

http://www.aranchbroker.com/images/cows011943.jpg

Spring Valley State Park

http://www.lvlg.com/lasvegas/attracts/park6.jpg

[ September 04, 2007, 10:43 PM: Message edited by: Jax ]

[TAFKA wacowx]

So....because you show me a picture of two lakes (that pale in comparison to the size of Lakes Mead and Mohave near Las Vegas, btw) and some green trees you are convinced northeastern Nevada is not a desert???

You are correct on one point, I have never been to north eastern Nevada (although I wouldn't exactly call Pioche north eastern Nevada, but I guess it's like in New York City, everything north of the Bronx is upstate smile.gif )...I've not even been to Las Vegas, but I am a meteorologist and I have been forecasting for the whole country, including Nevada for the past 16 years.

I'll give you this much, Elko in NE Nevada gets double the amount of rain of Las Vegas (9.62" on average for Elko vs. 4.50" for Las Vegas)...but you can't tell me that a YEARLY average rainfall under 10 inches isn't a desert? Anything below 14 or even 15" I would still call a desert climate

Heck, the dry central valley of California gets around 15 inches a year (most of the Central Valley's water (snowmelt) comes from the Sierra Nevada which averages as much as 75-90 inches of precip. Those same mountains which wring out the moisture from Pacific stoms are what unfortunately keep the state of Nevada from getting any appreciable rain...and keep it in a desert climate.

Now our 48" of rain annually in Houston is a different story. ;)

And you may be surprised to know that Phoenix Arizona...an unequivocable desert location, averages very close to 10" of rain a year...more than most of NE Nevada.

[ September 05, 2007, 06:46 AM: Message edited by: The Artist Formerly Known as wacowx ]

[vbwxman]

Originally posted by Hank Scorpio:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by foxravens:

BTW-it is the largest market in the country without major league sports.Norfolk market size: 42

I guess you forgot about:

Hartford (29)
Greenville (36)
West Palm (38)
Grand Rapids (39)
Birmingham (40)
Harrisburg (41)

Make that the 7th largest market without major league spx.</font>[/QUOTE]It isn't the largest DMA without a major league sports team, but it the largest city (Virginia Beach it he largest city in VA with a pop. of 450,000).

[Consider This]

Originally posted by The Artist Formerly Known as wacowx:

I'll give you this much, Elko in NE Nevada gets double the amount of rain of Las Vegas (9.62" on average for Elko vs. 4.50" for Las Vegas)...but you can't tell me that a YEARLY average rainfall under 10 inches isn't a desert? Anything below 14 or even 15" I would still call a desert climate.Oh there you go with all those fancy facts and stuff.

[Jax]

Originally posted by The Artist Formerly Known as wacowx:
So....because you show me a picture of two lakes (that pale in comparison to the size of Lakes Mead and Mohave near Las Vegas, btw) and some green trees you are convinced northeastern Nevada is not a desert???

You are correct on one point, I have never been to north eastern Nevada (although I wouldn't exactly call Pioche north eastern Nevada, but I guess it's like in New York City, everything north of the Bronx is upstate smile.gif )...I've not even been to Las Vegas, but I am a meteorologist and I have been forecasting for the whole country, including Nevada for the past 16 years.

I'll give you this much, Elko in NE Nevada gets double the amount of rain of Las Vegas (9.62" on average for Elko vs. 4.50" for Las Vegas)...but you can't tell me that a YEARLY average rainfall under 10 inches isn't a desert? Anything below 14 or even 15" I would still call a desert climate

Heck, the dry central valley of California gets around 15 inches a year (most of the Central Valley's water (snowmelt) comes from the Sierra Nevada which averages as much as 75-90 inches of precip. Those same mountains which wring out the moisture from Pacific stoms are what unfortunately keep the state of Nevada from getting any appreciable rain...and keep it in a desert climate.

Now our 48" of rain annually in Houston is a different story. ;)

And you may be surprised to know that Phoenix Arizona...an unequivocable desert location, averages very close to 10" of rain a year...more than most of NE Nevada.No, I do think NE NV is in the desert, just not the same kind of desert as southern NV. Great post on how all deserts are created equal. I mean, the desert landscape of Las Vegas is exactly like that of NE NV, a place you've never been... Thanks for the lesson. :rolleyes:

Unfortunately, measurable rainfall doesn't have a major effect on the underground aquifers and natural springs that feed much of the NE NV landscape (you know, the same ones Las Vegas wants to tap into and pipe south). The plan is to pipe 180k acre feet of water to Las Vegas a year. That adds up to about 50 billion gallons of water coming out of the ground up there per year. The water people of S. Nevada have already bought the water. Now they just need to put in the pipeline.

For someone who drones on and on about annual rainfall (that you looked up), I'm surprised you didn't wonder to yourself "I wonder how much water is in them thar hills..."

And you're right, our lakes aren't as big as Mead or Mojave. You pretty much ensure you're going to get a large lake when you dam up the Colorado River...

[ September 05, 2007, 10:24 PM: Message edited by: Jax ]