Job Search Milestone

[PKGable]

I just sent out my 25th tape. How naive I was to think that I would never actually get to this point. I have to say as many of you know, the job search is a humbling experience. And all the recent posts about getting out of the field are not helping. I’d like to spend at least a few more years in the biz before leaving!

Anyway, to all those who now know you on a first name basis at the post office, and they DON’T watch your channel, I feel you!

[Pinkie]

Chin up, it gets better! What kind of job are you looking for?

[PKGable]

I am looking for my second jump, reporter position, markets from the 60s to the 20s (and even one or two in the teens). Right now I am in a market right around 100 with a couple of years of experience.

[Sir Dropham Pants]

You're just getting started at 25 tapes. When I was sending for my second job, I think I probably put out 25 in a week. Keep at it - and remember - some of those hiring decisions won't be made for weeks, maybe even months after the tape has been sent. Keep sending, keep applying and you'll find a good fit. And don't just send to stations with advertised openings. Send to stations you want to work for in cities where you'd want to live.

[thenewsleader12345]

dude..how arrogant. 25 tapes? It takes about 50-100 to land a job. the second, third, fourth jobs are just as hard to get as the first.

[kydocking]

Consider a career change while you still can. TV is all BS. And don't just try to jump on the PR bandwagon. You can do better than that! PR career after TV is nothing more than a booby prize.

[MichaelPS]

In general, that's a tough jump to make, especially if many of these tapes are going to markets between 10-20. You need to have just stellar, flawless lives that are absolutely not cliche. And your packages need to be short. Very short. Like 1;00 or less for some markets. And they need to be very fast moving.. Oh, and your montage needs to not have clips that repeat in the body of the tape, and if you're looking for straight reporter jobs, there shouldn't be any anchoring o n it. And your stories need to be season appropriate. No snow stories in August, for example - it says that it's been months since you've had anything good to show off.

Thing is, as much as the business is about who you know, it's really about who you know in 20 or above. If you're just doing the equivalent of tossing a bottle in the ocean, you're in for along haul.

[upandown]

25 is nothing.
Get back to us at 100.

No. Wait. At that point, I'd begin to worry.

[ August 20, 2007, 09:40 PM: Message edited by: upandown ]

[Sultanosurf]

I don't mind sending. It's just sitting down to edit the damn thing...

[Roy Hobbs]

Originally posted by upandown:
25 is nothing.
Get back to us at 100.

No. Wait. At that point, I'd begin to worry.LOL maybe, maybe not. I stopped and/or gave up at about the 138 tape mark...about the time I realized that Chicago with a population of many Irish American males has almost none on the air and hires Indian Canadians instead.

TV has really become one big casting call and if you don't fit the Flavor of the Day per consultants or the ND's mix of gender/age/race for a particular spot you're pretty much screwed.

[Charlie Brown]

Originally posted by Roy Hobbs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by upandown:
25 is nothing.
Get back to us at 100.

No. Wait. At that point, I'd begin to worry.LOL maybe, maybe not. I stopped and/or gave up at about the 138 tape mark...about the time I realized that Chicago with a population of many Irish American males has almost none on the air and hires Indian Canadians instead.

TV has really become one big casting call and if you don't fit the Flavor of the Day per consultants or the ND's mix of gender/age/race for a particular spot you're pretty much screwed.</font>[/QUOTE]I'm going to (respectfully) disagree with this point. Just because you fit the "flavor of the day" (as you put it) does not mean you're automatically going to get a job. You're implying with your previous statement that it's much easier for a minority or a really really hot chick to make a jump into a big market than it is a white male. Reality? If your talent stands out from the rest of the hundreds of tapes that a hiring manager gets, you'll get the job. Period. If minorities really have it easier, then why did Rob Johnson replace Antonio Mora anchoring two of the three weeknight shows at WBBM?

The position you're referencing specifically is the weekend anchor spot at ABC7 in Chicago...lay off of Ravi will you? He's a great anchor who cut his teeth doing national canadian news. He earned the job and he's doing great work in the position.

[Roy Hobbs]

I'll respectfully disagree with your respectful disagreement...my point wasn't what a "minority or hot chick" can do, it was what someone who is not of a particular mix cannot.

And you can get burned in medium and small markets just as much as a big one.

There's a good lesson to be learned when you follow up and see who gets hired.

One element I left out is the "cheap kids" factor as well...which is starting to creep up beyond medium markets.

[Charlie Brown]

potato, potato. your argument is the same either way - white guys can't get on-camera jobs in tv anymore. and that's simply not true.

[Roy Hobbs]

You say Potato and I say Boise...maybe.

[Medicinematt]

Check your PMs.

[Clever Login Name]

Took me three tapes. Of course, my first employer was quite desperate, as was I. And I had some inside, fellow alumni help greasing the skids.

[Ms. Corningstone]

Will someone please make me feel better today and say that things are just really slow as far as hiring goes because of say summer? Heck make somethin' up!

I've never had that TV ego (maybe that's the problem) but I'll ditto the first poster to say this is surely humbling.

[SpxGrunt]

Originally posted by happynews:
dude..how arrogant. 25 tapes? It takes about 50-100 to land a job. the second, third, fourth jobs are just as hard to get as the first.Arrogant? He/she admitted he/she was naive in thinking it would get that far. No arrogance there. Chill out.

[Roy Hobbs]

Originally posted by Ms. Corningstone:
Will someone please make me feel better today and say that things are just really slow as far as hiring goes because of say summer? Heck make somethin' up!

I've never had that TV ego (maybe that's the problem) but I'll ditto the first poster to say this is surely humbling.You know, I couldn't help noticing that things are just really slow as far as hiring goes because of, say, Summer.

In fact...this is surely humbling.

[Roy Hobbs]

(looking at watch, checking calendar) Well that's the last time I get my heart set on a good ditto-ing from Ms. Corningstone.
http://www.sptimes.com/2004/07/08/images/xlarge/WK_0_wk08ancho_190611_0708.jpg

[ August 25, 2007, 05:12 PM: Message edited by: Roy Hobbs ]

[southwesternguy]

I've some people zoom up the ladder quickly, while others take a long time to get to bigger markets.

People who aren't very talented are always looking for excuses (hot blondes, minorities, martians are taking all the jobs). That's laughable. TV is not much different than other areas of life. The supremely talented will be the most successful group, reaching the pinnacle fastest. The somewhat talented will take a little longer. The not-so-talented will take longer still, or maybe never quite get where they want to go. Sorry, that's just the way it is.

Take a look at the Colts. Peyton Manning is safe and secure at his position, and has probably already made the Hall of Fame. There's an undrafted rookie or two hoping they don't get a visit from The Turk in the next few weeks. Peyton=supremely talented. Undrafted Free Agent Guy=not-so-talented. People just have a hard time accepting the truth about their own abilities.

[adam &amp; doctor drew]

Originally posted by Charlie Brown:
You're implying with your previous statement that it's much easier for a minority or a really really hot chick to make a jump into a big market than it is a white male.it is.

[Backup QB]

Originally posted by Roy Hobbs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by upandown:
25 is nothing.
Get back to us at 100.

No. Wait. At that point, I'd begin to worry.LOL maybe, maybe not. I stopped and/or gave up at about the 138 tape mark...about the time I realized that Chicago with a population of many Irish American males has almost none on the air and hires Indian Canadians instead.

TV has really become one big casting call and if you don't fit the Flavor of the Day per consultants or the ND's mix of gender/age/race for a particular spot you're pretty much screwed.</font>[/QUOTE]No disrespect intended here, because I don't know you. Let's just say that I've read enough of your posts to get an idea of where you're coming from.

You seem to think that not being a minority has hurt your career prospects in a big way. I think that's bunk and your lack of progress is because of your talent level. I'm sure it hurts to hear that and it sucks to admit that to yourself. But, be honest.

I'm a minority and I used to think that would be much to my advantage. Truth is, my talent level wasn't enough to land me a job in a bigger market. I thought my on-air persona and writing skills were good enough for me to climb the ladder. The only problem is that news directors didn't share that point of view.

It happens. Sometimes, you come up short. Life has to go on regardless.

Blaming your lack of good fortune on others doesn't do a thing to help you get ahead. If anything, it just makes you more negative and keeps you from making progress.

I understand how you feel, but, at the same time, the comments that you make here carry a very negative and hateful undertone that I and others don't care for.

Did it ever occur to you that the anchor you bashed got the job because of his talent level and not because he's Indian or Canadian?

[TAFKA wacowx]

I know Roy can be a bit jaded after such a long job search, but there is certainly a nugget of truth in what he has to say:

Anything that makes a tape stand out and be different will get greater attention. In some cases, in some jobs, being a white male may be this very thing, in some cases, a female may have the attention advantage, in other cases, perhaps it is a minority, maybe it's an older applicant, maybe a younger one. We are always trying to make our tapes and materials stand out and in many cases where there are hundreds of white males pouring in for the same job, any difference may get a closer or second look and this may be the key to landing the job.

The talent needs to be there, absolutely, but all other things equal, anything that sets you apart from others and gets you at minimum a longer looksie is a help.

[The Mockingbird]

I sent out 6 tapes, and got 2 offers the last time I looked for a job.

Of course, I was a producer.

[Roy Hobbs]

My first job took two tapes...my second, to a top 40 market, took one; when you hear off the record from three different agents that they can't take on white males because they can't place the ones they have, you get the idea.

Another factor is that in many markets, major medium and small...those guys are hanging onto their jobs like drunks on a lamp post (in fact some ARE drunks on a lamp post).

Most of the moves I see are a guy moving down in markets or a cheap, young one-man bander moving up. I'd love to hear examples otherwise...but Rob Johnson moving from a #1 to a #4 station while Kevin Roy gets kicked to the curb on weekends ain't it.

[Charlie Brown]

I think the general point being made here is if you really wanted to get back in badly enough, you could.

[Roy Hobbs]

But how's the flight schedules? smile.gif

http://www.midrivers.com/~airport/images/logo2.jpg

[PKGable]

I'm glad to see that my post has spurred an interesting discussion, albeit somewhat off topic. I'll throw out another question for you all...not necessarily race, but gender. I believe (based on no fact whatsoever), that right now men are in more demand than women.

I agree that every station might be looking for something specific (ie need more women, need more diversity), but in general terms, who has it easier? Men or women?

[thenewsleader12345]

actually, according to my agent.. minorities and women are in demand. Male ANCHORS are hard to find. But not male reporters.
Roy is right..white male reporters are not getting placed. He's not just being fed a line.

Of course..there are exceptions..not every white male... but its not who most ND's are looking for right now.

Also..this is primarily in bigger markets. Yeah..a white guy can get a job easily in market 70. But try going to Miami or Chicago or San Fran...and the minorities and women are what they are looking for.

[Purplehaze]

Originally posted by happynews:
actually, according to my agent.. minorities and women are in demand. Male ANCHORS are hard to find. But not male reporters.
Roy is right..white male reporters are not getting placed. He's not just being fed a line.

Of course..there are exceptions..not every white male... but its not who most ND's are looking for right now.

Also..this is primarily in bigger markets. Yeah..a white guy can get a job easily in market 70. But try going to Miami or Chicago or San Fran...and the minorities and women are what they are looking for.Those markets you've mentioned make an effort to reflect their viewing audience. And naturally, if they already have a white main weather guy, a white main male anchor and likely a white main sports guy, they are going to balance things out on the reporter staff. And I have a problem with people who automatically assume that a minority who gets a job in a big market is less qualified than a white guy simply because he or she is a minority.

No one ever said this business was fair. Remember, this is a visual medium, so the people making accusations need to take a hard look at themselves and ask if they're doing all they can in that regard. Focus on the things you can control, not the things you can't.

[ August 29, 2007, 03:54 PM: Message edited by: Purplehaze ]

[thenewsleader12345]

A news director in a Top 5 market recently hired an african american reporter. The ND admitted: "(she/he) is very green. But its hard to find people an attractive black (woman/man)." She got the job. More qualified white men and women who werent "green" were passed over.

[Purplehaze]

Originally posted by happynews:
A news director in a Top 5 market recently hired an african american reporter. The ND admitted: "(she/he) is very green. But its hard to find people an attractive black (woman/man)." She got the job. More qualified white men and women who werent "green" were passed over.That ND is doing his station and newsroom a disservice because there certainly are people of color who are qualified and experienced. He just chose not to hire any of them.

[cat]

I too have heard from ND's that it's really hard to find tapes from good males right now. For each male reporter tape he gets he likely gets 20 tapes from females.

[Chartsengrafs]

Try being a white male wx guy for a while. graemlins/eusa_doh.gif :rolleyes:

[Clubbeat]

Originally posted by happynews:
A news director in a Top 5 market recently hired an african american reporter. The ND admitted: "(she/he) is very green. But its hard to find people an attractive black (woman/man)." She got the job. More qualified white men and women who werent "green" were passed over.Sounds to me like this ND does not know good talent. There are plenty of attractive, intelligent and very good black reportersas are plenty of talented and attractive white males and females reporters and anchors.

The fact that ND's and their counsultant hire based on what they think the market wants is an age old task that has degenerated into who is the most attarcative and cheapest to hire.

And even if you're the flavor of the month, it does not mean that you'll get the gig. In higher markets especially, it's all about who you know.

[morning guy]

Another issue is location. No matter your race/gender, some markets won't get tapes because folks don't want to live there. So while management would love to hire a black male/female in the Heartland of America. That same black male/female is getting offers at bigger and better stations.

[Spx Guy]

...I sent out 90 for my first job. Took three months to finally land one out of college. Yes. It was a sports job. Yes. I only went for sports reporting/sports photographer openings.

[Another side]

Originally posted by Backup QB:
No disrespect intended here, because I don't know you. Let's just say that I've read enough of your posts to get an idea of where you're coming from.

You seem to think that not being a minority has hurt your career prospects in a big way. I think that's bunk and your lack of progress is because of your talent level. I'm sure it hurts to hear that and it sucks to admit that to yourself. But, be honest.

I'm a minority and I used to think that would be much to my advantage. Truth is, my talent level wasn't enough to land me a job in a bigger market. I thought my on-air persona and writing skills were good enough for me to climb the ladder. The only problem is that news directors didn't share that point of view.

It happens. Sometimes, you come up short. Life has to go on regardless.

Blaming your lack of good fortune on others doesn't do a thing to help you get ahead. If anything, it just makes you more negative and keeps you from making progress.

I understand how you feel, but, at the same time, the comments that you make here carry a very negative and hateful undertone that I and others don't care for.

Did it ever occur to you that the anchor you bashed got the job because of his talent level and not because he's Indian or Canadian?There are some good points in this post ... but simply because your talent was found lacking (by your words, not mine) does not mean the same is true for Mr. Hobbs.

Talent -- or lack thereof -- is not the only reason people do or don't get hired. Reputation as offered by the grapevine and previous employers can also play a big role. Attitude, flexibility, versatility, lifestyle,and willingness to work with others also count.

I'm not suggesting that Mr. Hobbs lacks in any of those categories; I'm just observing that your notion that talent is the end-all is inaccurate.

I have no problem admitting as a former manager, I wanted a racial minority in the mix when the final candidates were assembled. That's how you address diversity in your community -- by trying for diversity in your newsroom.

But if a minority was found and was placed in the mix, from that point forward his or her work (and the other things I mentioned above) stood for themselves, and best person for our shop was hired.

I never put much stock in the "I can't find a minority applicant" response from those involved in hiring. They're out there, but sometimes -- if a diverse newsroom is important to you -- you have to find them and invite them to apply.

But again ... they stand on their own if they make the final cut.

And by the way ... being "hot" was never a factor. "Presentable" and "credible" mattered more.