Who's left the business to go back to school?

[bengal]

What'd you do? Which test(s) did you take? Did it work out? Very curious.

[MyracleMan]

I've been thinking about it, too... I'll be watching this thread.

[Spike]

I have. In fact, I'm posting this from the school's computer lab whilst on a break from studying for a big accounting exam. I don't know how much my experience will help you, however, because I'm currently taking undergraduate courses to prepare for graduate school.

First, my academic background, so you can get a sense of how my experience might relate to yours. I have a BFA in Motion Pictures from a very reputable film conservatory. Even so, I changed my major five times my first time around as an undergrad, studying music, business, psychology, radio & television, and finally film with a concentration in cinematography. I ended up with more than 200 hours and a 3.9 GPA when I graduated. I was two classes short of a minor in math as well. Nobody can say I didn't get a broad education.

Then the tests. I took the LSAT and scored high enough to get into a reputable school, but not a top school. After talking with some working lawyers, my interest waned. Then I took the GMAT and scored in the 99th percentile with a perfect score on the verbal/logic section. However, even though my GPA and GMAT score would seem to blow the doors off most MBA applicants, I lacked the business background to get into a top business school. I could have gotten into a second tier school, but what would be the point of that?

So now I am in school completing the undergraduate prep work necessary to qualify for a good graduate business program. I am about two semesters away from having completed all the coursework to sit for the CPA exam, and I have been eyeing the Master of Public Accounting program at the University of Texas. It's the top accounting program in the country, and I should be able to get in there.

I should clarify that I'm in school full time now, but I have been taking classes while working for the last couple of years. It's not difficult to handle one or two classes a semester while working full time. That's how I'm as close to finishing the CPA requirements as I am.

The obvious question is what the hell I want to do with a CPA certification. As I started in the film industry, I would like to get back to the film industry, but in a capacity in which I can learn how the money flows through a feature film. After several years, and once I get a good handle on it, I would like to develop a couple of basic accounting classes for film students, future film producers and independent contractors. Education on how to handle money is one area in which film schools are sorely lacking; I have yet to find a film and video accounting class at any institution in this country, and very few teach students how to handle their business operations as freelancers. I'm interested in that graduate accounting degree at UT because it would qualify me to teach.

However, the wrench in my plans is that I have recently become quite interested in economics and am considering putting off an application to UT to study another semester of economics and econometrics to explore whether I might want to pursue econ in graduate school instead. Masters degrees in economics are not very useful, so graduate study would most likely involve taking the GRE and applying to a doctoral program instead. This would be a complete departure from all my other plans, so it's going to require quite a bit of soul searching.

Still, I wouldn't mind being Dr. Spike, the world's foremost authority on game theory. graemlins/bs.gif

[ March 31, 2007, 02:46 PM: Message edited by: Spike ]

[Spike]

Also, you specifically asked about the tests. I found the LSAT to be considerably more difficult than the GMAT, for one simple reason: logic games. I *****ing hate them. I scored in the 99th percentile on all sections except the logic games, on which was somewhere in the 70s.

In case you don't know what a logic game is, it's a big nasty problem in which you are given a series of conditions and then have to answer questions. For example, you may be told that you have six part-time employees that have to be scheduled for four hour shifts during the week. Then you're told that Bob can never work Friday, that Sally can never work Wednesday, that Fred can only work Monday, and that Sally and Fred hate each other and can never work on the same day. Then you might be told that Juan can't work two consecutive days, while Alan MUST work exactly two shifts per week. Etc. Etc. Then you have to schedule everyone.

That's just an example. They have several different types of these games. Actually, if you play Sudoku, that's a logic game as well, but the LSAT puts them in the form of word problems. If you like that kind of thing, you might do better than I did.

The GMAT is much easier because it's multiple choice on a computer and only consists of three sections: verbal/logic, mathematics and an essay. The math section seems to be what gives people trouble, because it gets fairly heavy into statistics and probability. The top MBA programs look very closely at the math score, because they all put a heavy emphasis on metrics when learning how to predict cash flows and formulate pricing structures.

For the LSAT, I would highly recommend taking the Testmasters 180 (http://www.testmasters180.com/) course. Don't bother with Princeton Review, and especially not Kaplan (I went through a training program to teach for Kaplan, and I'm convinced it's nothing more than a scam to sell more prep courses). Testmasters is particularly good at teaching strategies to tackle the logic games in a rational manner. They also have licensed all the questions from former LSAT tests, whereas the other prep companies are making up their own (which often come out rather strange compared to the actual test and, in the case of Kaplan, are sometimes intentionally skewed to make you think you're doing better or worse than you are). Be sure you're looking at the Testmasters 180 course linked above and not the "Test Masters" copycat company out of Texas.

For the GMAT, I wouldn't recommend a prep course at all unless you just can't make yourself study, because NONE of the prep courses have the rights to the GMAT questions. Instead, you can buy a book ($60 or so) directly from GMAC, the organization that administers the test. That book includes all the retired test questions from previous exams, as well as tutorials to help you understand them. If you feel you MUST take a prep course, I don't have a recommendation except to tell you to buy that book from GMAC and work through those problems in addition to whatever your prep course gives you. Trust me on this, this advice comes from somebody who scored a 750 (99th percentile) on the GMAT in one attempt.

[Oh Snap]

I recently finished up the application process for grad school and have started to hear back. I've been accepted to a few places and haven't heard anything from a couple of others.

Anywho, I decided to get a Master's in journalism. Every school has a different program and different requirements when it comes to testing. I took the GRE. Some schools want your scores from that, some don't require it, but will accept the scores as part of your application. I studied for about a month, got a tutor and took a class and that got me where I needed to be (I've been out of school for awhile and needed to brush up on basic skills). Most of the schools seem to want a Verbal score above 600 (the highest is 800), and a strong writing score (the highest is 6). I don't know that the math score carries that much weight. My goal for that section was just not to bomb it. If you're returning to school for TV management or are looking to get away from journalism completely, you may have to take the GMAT.
Preparing for the GRE was difficult, but the essays took the longest and are the most important part of the application. Do well on those and you're golden. Plus, you've got professional experience and that puts you ahead of most of the crowd.
A lot of people told me I shouldn't return to school, and I was tempted to give up at first, but now I'm really proud of myself and can't wait to return. My only regret is that I didn't start preparing and saving money earlier. My decision to go back was pretty last minute. If I could do it over, I'd start studying months ahead of time, research a few more schools, and get some better references outside the business. It would have been a great time to touch base with some of my former professors.

I won't get started until the fall, so I can't answer the "has it worked out" question. But I'll be in a major market, working with some amazing professionals, learning new things and trying out new ideas. So far, I couldn't be happier with my decision. As long as I can keep from going hungry for 3 semesters I think it will work out.

[The Mockingbird]

Originally posted by Oh Snap:
I recently finished up the application process for grad school and have started to hear back. I've been accepted to a few places and haven't heard anything from a couple of others.

Anywho, I decided to get a Master's in journalism. Every school has a different program and different requirements when it comes to testing. I took the GRE. Some schools want your scores from that, some don't require it, but will accept the scores as part of your application. I studied for about a month, got a tutor and took a class and that got me where I needed to be (I've been out of school for awhile and needed to brush up on basic skills). Most of the schools seem to want a Verbal score above 600 (the highest is 800), and a strong writing score (the highest is 6). I don't know that the math score carries that much weight. My goal for that section was just not to bomb it. If you're returning to school for TV management or are looking to get away from journalism completely, you may have to take the GMAT.
Preparing for the GRE was difficult, but the essays took the longest and are the most important part of the application. Do well on those and you're golden. Plus, you've got professional experience and that puts you ahead of most of the crowd.
A lot of people told me I shouldn't return to school, and I was tempted to give up at first, but now I'm really proud of myself and can't wait to return. My only regret is that I didn't start preparing and saving money earlier. My decision to go back was pretty last minute. If I could do it over, I'd start studying months ahead of time, research a few more schools, and get some better references outside the business. It would have been a great time to touch base with some of my former professors.

I won't get started until the fall, so I can't answer the "has it worked out" question. But I'll be in a major market, working with some amazing professionals, learning new things and trying out new ideas. So far, I couldn't be happier with my decision. As long as I can keep from going hungry for 3 semesters I think it will work out.If you're going to do something with your graduate degree, for the love of God, do it in a field besides journalism.

Unless, of course, you plan to teach journalism.

[bengal]

Snap --

What are you planning to do with your grad degree?

[Oh Snap]

Not quite sure what I'll do with it just yet... My ultimate goal is to figure out a way to do what I love, without the constraints that I have now (like very limited amounts of time, needing approval from higher-ups for every little thing, fear of alienating advertisers, etc.).
I may just end up being a bit better at what I do... But I'm really looking at it as an opportunity to hear from others, bounce ideas off other people, make contacts, and get a better picture of what my options might be. Or maybe find a void in the industry that I might be able to fill.
I really love journalism and I truly believe in it, even though I don't always like what I see. So I don't think I'll leave. I'll just maybe look for ways to improve it...

[bengal]

Spike --

Thanks for the reply - very detailed. You seem like you've got a good plan.

Anyone else who went back to grad school for something other than Journalism? Or is planning to?

[no ifb]

I'm in my second year of grad school (part-time) in Communication. Overall, it has been rewarding and very interesting. I'm learning a lot. Obviously, there are times I wonder why I did this to myself.

The application process wasn't too bad -- references, transcripts, short essay and the GRE. For me, the GRE wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. Not worthy of great stress.

I used the study DVD that came with the GRE registration kit. That worked fine. I didn't spend too much time studying for the analytical/verbal/written portions of the test. Like any good communication undergrad, I was very concerned about the math portion. I put a few hours of time and effort into studying for that. Thank God my wife remembers a little algebra and geometry. That helped more than the study guide. I didn't want to look like a total math idiot. My scores were well above average in the non-math portion. My math score was a little below average, but not too bad.

I'm only taking one class a week, which is plenty for me. I have little kids at home and juggling family, work and school keeps me busy. My advisor suggested budgeting 12 hours of study time per week for each 3 hour class. Most weeks I can get by with less, but there are times when more is required. As you would expect, compared to the undergrad world, there are more frequent assignments and they require more in-depth thinking. No "mailing it in" -- at least not for me. If you fall behind, it's hard to catch up.

I decided to go back to school because I had just signed a contract extension at work and thought it would be nice to earn a little something extra by the time the contract expires. I also want to be better prepared when the time comes to leave the business. Having an advanced degree couldn't hurt.

What I would most like to do with the degree is move into academia -- teach broadcast journalism and conduct research at a university, perhaps one day attempt to earn a PhD. But at this time in my life, I'm not willing to take the salary hit. Maybe several years down the road. In the meantime, after earning the MA, I may be able to teach a class as an adjunct professor where I'm currently enrolled.

Hope this helps. Good luck with your decision.

[Run's House]

I left the business to go to law school, and it was the best decision I ever made. Spike and I would have made a good team on the LSAT, as I pimped the logic part, but didn't set any records on the other parts.