Getting out of a contract

[Arctic Man]

Hypothetical question: Say you want out of your contract, but management actually likes you (until now) and wants to keep you. Can you get yourself fired? Like bringing a 6-pack to work every day? What would happen?? :confused:

[ February 10, 2007, 11:09 AM: Message edited by: Arctic Man ]

[adam & doctor drew]

um, word would spread and you'd find it hard to get another job?

[Gail sirens]

You'd probably find your next job in the Arctic.

[The Mockingbird]

Depends on where you're working next.

However, getting out of contracts is easy enough.

[newslady_26]

how is it easy to get out of a contract?

[Eeps Snorps Now]

Originally posted by Arctic Man:
Hypothetical question: Say you want out of your contract, but management actually likes you (until now) and wants to keep you. Can you get yourself fired? Like bringing a 6-pack to work every day? What would happen?? :confused: I'm sure you're a peach of a guy, but given the information in your post, I can't imagine what management could possibly like about you as an employee.

[Sultanosurf]

How many of these threads have we seen? Generally I'm a cordial fireplug of info, but c'mon. Gee, Arctic, have you tried talking with mgmt?

[Arctic Man]

Easy, people... just a hypothetical question. Not trying to go anywhere! I guess I don't hit this board as much as everybody else.
graemlins/icon_pray.gif

I'll go back to my igloo...

[Eeps Snorps Now]

Fair enough.

You signed the contract. Live up to your end of the bargain.

A contract implies value to both parties. If you wish to discuss a change in terms, sit down with your ND and explain what you'd like to do and why (sick relative, want to go to different city, etc).

ND may insist on specific performance; ie you live up to the terms of the contract you signed. Or...he/she may agree to end the agreement early, etc. IF he/she does that, there may be some negotiation as to exit terms...they may ask you to compensate them for not getting the full term of your services, though they've paid you from the beginning as if they were to receive that full term.

Keep your approach strictly professional. It's not about whether they "like you" personally. It's about whether they need you professionally.

Some stations will try to accommodate contracted employees who handle such requests in a professional manner. Some won't. If you've tried your best and can't get to "yes"...suck it up, give them your best, and remember the lesson the next time you sign a contract (don't sign for longer than you are absolutely, positively willing to stay at a job).

Nix the talk of bringing a "six pack" to work, etc. Even floated casually, it will very likely make its way to your boss, who will not likely find it amusing. NDs and GMs HATE such ploys, or even talk of same. Remember that these kinds of things always...always...make it to group owner HR directors, who have a very small and chummy club in our industry as well as suspiciously long memories.

Good luck to you.

[ February 11, 2007, 09:07 PM: Message edited by: Gravefully Sinful ]

[Stack It]

Originally posted by newslady_26:
how is it easy to get out of a contract?Call your boss an ignorant ******* on the air, that will do it.

[blue face]

Just remember, they can't make you come to work.

They CAN keep you from working against them both in your market and markets where they have stations.

[The Mockingbird]

Originally posted by Gravefully Sinful:
Fair enough.

You signed the contract. Live up to your end of the bargain.

A contract implies value to both parties. If you wish to discuss a change in terms, sit down with your ND and explain what you'd like to do and why (sick relative, want to go to different city, etc).

ND may insist on specific performance; ie you live up to the terms of the contract you signed. Or...he/she may agree to end the agreement early, etc. IF he/she does that, there may be some negotiation as to exit terms...they may ask you to compensate them for not getting the full term of your services, though they've paid you from the beginning as if they were to receive that full term.

Keep your approach strictly professional. It's not about whether they "like you" personally. It's about whether they need you professionally.

Some stations will try to accommodate contracted employees who handle such requests in a professional manner. Some won't. If you've tried your best and can't get to "yes"...suck it up, give them your best, and remember the lesson the next time you sign a contract (don't sign for longer than you are absolutely, positively willing to stay at a job).

Nix the talk of bringing a "six pack" to work, etc. Even floated casually, it will very likely make its way to your boss, who will not likely find it amusing. NDs and GMs HATE such ploys, or even talk of same. Remember that these kinds of things always...always...make it to group owner HR directors, who have a very small and chummy club in our industry as well as suspiciously long memories.

Good luck to you.That, my friends, is the standard management line, nearly word for word. I'm not sure if there's a pamphlet or something, but we've all heard this before.

1) If you're getting good pay, good benefits, and a good working environment, then yeah, I'd say sure, honor your word. But they didn't let you come work there for a week to make sure the place didn't suck, did they? No. The nature of the situation made you make a long-term decision without knowing all the facts.

2) Management at a lot of shops won't hesitate to end contracts early if its in their best interest. The difference is, they'll find a way in your contract to let them do it.

That being said, don't get yourself fired, or talk about doing that.

If you have another job in the industry, you have to play nice with management. If you're not staying the industry, you can tell them to die in a fire (I did).

One more thing: don't quit your job without having another job, period.

[Eeps Snorps Now]

"That, my friends, is the standard management line, nearly word for word. I'm not sure if there's a pamphlet or something, but we've all heard this before."

...That, my friend, is industry practice. As a journalist, you should know there are two sides to that story. Now, you can take the burr up your a** against "all management" to a formal discussion regarding your own contract, and more than likely get nowhere. Or, you can act in an honorable and professional manner and perhaps get the change in terms. Your choice.

"That being said, don't get yourself fired, or talk about doing that."

...On that point, we agree.

"One more thing: don't quit your job without having another job, period."

...That's good advice, though no reputable employer would voluntarily put itself in the line of almost certain litigation for hiring an individual still under contract to another party unless said person is really...really...worth it. The ranks of such individuals in our industry are few.

[ February 12, 2007, 06:06 AM: Message edited by: Gravefully Sinful ]

[The Mockingbird]

Depending on the situation, it doesn't matter if it's "industry practice." If you're leaving the industry, there is absolutely nothing to keep you in your contract. Nothing.

The poster hasn't clarified whether he (hypothetically) wants to get out of the industry or not.

Getting fired, though, is not the way to do it, regardless of it.

[Eeps Snorps Now]

If you're leaving the industry, there is absolutely nothing to keep you in your contract. Nothing. [/QB]I don't know what "keep you in your contract means." You can either adhere to the terms of it or not. If not, the degree to which you put yourself at risk depends on the terms of the contract and the other party. If there is a liquidated damage clause, you do put yourself personally in the line of fire, whether you are "leaving the industry" (a pretty broad and subjective term these days given the breadth of electronic and other media)or not. If you're lucky, the other party will just do a rollover. Don't count on it, since most employers are unlikely to set such a precedent for a contract jumper. If they don't roll over, you could find yourself on the receiving end of civil legal proceedings. So, caveat emptor, both when you sign a contract and if/when you decide to alter the terms afterwards.

[ February 12, 2007, 07:09 AM: Message edited by: Gravefully Sinful ]

[tvcontract.com]

Sinful's posts are full of good information, but he is missing one significant point -- almost any contract can be "gotten out of", but it depends on a number of factors, especially why you want out, how important you are to the station, and how much time is left on the deal.

One other thing; the reality is that station's are quick to threaten formal legal action, but slow to actually initiate it since they almost always have more to lose in a dispute.

a good broadcast attorney knows how to help you negotiate an early release without resorting to getting yourself fired, which is never a good idea.

[adam & doctor drew]

Originally posted by The Mockingbird:
Management at a lot of shops won't hesitate to end contracts early if its in their best interest.
yes, and they also have to PAY what's left of the contract.
so I don't see anything wrong with that.

[ February 12, 2007, 10:52 AM: Message edited by: adam & doctor drew ]

[The Mockingbird]

No judge in the land is gonna side with the huge corporation over the reporter making 23k a year.

Now, if you're one of the rare broadcast professionals making a decent wage, it might be a little different.

However, people making good money at their jobs generally aren't looking to bring a six-pack to work to get out of it, on the whole.

[NotImpressed]

Don't be so sure. I know of a reporter who was in a market smaller than 125. She signed a 2-year deal then wanted out after 6 months. They made her pay 10g to get out - more than she even earned in her six months there.

[The Mockingbird]

That doesn't sound like a case that went to court, that sounds like a reporter who caved.

[Roy Hobbs]

Originally posted by tvcontract.com:
Sinful's posts are full of good information, but he is missing one significant point -- almost any contract can be "gotten out of", but it depends on a number of factors, especially why you want out, how important you are to the station, and how much time is left on the deal.

One other thing; the reality is that station's are quick to threaten formal legal action, but slow to actually initiate it since they almost always have more to lose in a dispute.

a good broadcast attorney knows how to help you negotiate an early release without resorting to getting yourself fired, which is never a good idea."Way to go DALLAS!!!"

http://static.flickr.com/57/163282504_874b6ed573_m.jpg

Oh sorry, I just love hearing killer good advice coming in at the nick of time.

One more point from Roy: Some stations won't hesitate to make up graemlins/bs.gif reasons to cancel contracts to their advantage despite THEIR written commitment to you...

[Sir Dropham Pants]

Roy speaks true. A GM or ND (or both) can make up any fictional reason under the sun to get rid of a person. Contract or not. The good bosses will handle it professionally. The bad ones will do whatever they have to; loyalty or basic human kindness be damned.

[overthehill]

Maybe it's already been said, but a contract is a legal document. Breaking it is not a simple deal. You signed it with the hopes the station would live up to its end of the agreement. The station expects you to live up to the contract too.

All that said, the best way to get OUT of a contract is to ask your bosses. Be honest, be truthful. Talk to the ND, Talk to the GM. Explain why you want out, legitimize your reasons. Some employers don't want unhappy, unmotivated workers and will tear up your contract, allowing you to leave.

[Sir Dropham Pants]

The one thing I'll add to hill's above comments: think long and hard before you approach a GM or ND about getting out of a contract. How well do you know those managers - I'm talking about knowing them as people. Be really ready for that conversation. It'll be a very important one. Be prepared for them to take it personally. An egocentric manager may not react well. A reasonable manager will attempt to solve the problems or at least work with the unhappy employee. There's also the possibility of this response: "You don't like it here? Fine, get the f--- out of here. Now. And remember that non-compete? I'm holding you to it. And my lawyer is bigger than yours. Try me."
It's happened and if it happens to you, you'll be out of work and still looking. Not an enviable position.

[Eeps Snorps Now]

Arctic, you've got a pretty good thread here in response to your initial question. Some very practical advise to increase your chances of a beneficial outcome. Some agreement...some disagreement.

If you can afford a contract attorney with a track record, that's the way to get the best advice specific to your situation.

If not, do the research suggested above. Keep the emotion, immaturity and grudges out of the conversatons. In spite of the testosterone-driven bravado which is so prevalent on Medialine, those almost never work toward your own best interest in real life (particularly in contract negotiations).

So good luck to you however it works out.

[Backup QB]

The contract gives value to both sides? The station management wants you to think that. But, I don't agree. I'm sure the poster in question isn't making enough money to feel the contract has any value. Sounds like he just wants to cut his losses and run.

Unfortunately, the stations hold all the power. The contracts are written in their best interest, and not in a way that's mutually satisfying. The attitude is "this is the deal, take it or leave it". Of course, if you leave it, there are 99 other fools who would take it.

Getting yourself fired is NOT a good idea. I repeat, NOT a good idea. Forget it right now. How would you explain yourself to a future employer? If you want to sack your chances of getting a good job after this, be my guest and get yourself fired.

Be upfront about why you want to leave. If it's for a good reason (family crisis, change of career direction), they might be willing to play ball and let you out in 30 to 60 days. If you're leaving to go across the street, forget it right now. And, read your contract, because you might have a clause preventing you from going to a competitor.

Consult a lawyer before trying to pass GO and collecting your $200.

[Arctic Man]

Thanks everybody... some good advice. Although it would be nice if management lived up to their end of the bargain (always get it in writing!!), this was just a hypothetical thread started by some Friday night grumbling at the bar.

I'm not leaving... not by my choice, at least. So I won't pass GO and collect $200... I'll just sit here with my shack on Baltic.

[ February 16, 2007, 11:35 AM: Message edited by: Arctic Man ]

[Eeps Snorps Now]

Originally posted by Backup QB:
The contract gives value to both sides? The station management wants you to think that. But, I don't agree. I'm sure the poster in question isn't making enough money to feel the contract has any value. Conversely, the employee who is about to sign a contract wants station management to think he/she gives value. The nanosecond two signatures go on a contract, whatever that may be, those two parties (the only ones whose opinions matter) have agreed to the document's value.

If you don't think a contract brings sufficient value to you for the entire term(s) specified, don't sign it.

[imported_DiamondInTheRough]

I have 6 months left on a contract, but have a chance to get back closer to home down south. Anyone been down this road before? I've explained situation to bosses and this opportunity may not arise again for a while, if ever. They're "working on it," but no time frame given and I know the other shop won't wait too long. Thoughts?