VHS/Home computer question

[On Air]

A question for people more technical than I: how would one go about hooking up a VHS machine so as to dump video to the computer where I can edit it and then record back onto a VHS tape?

[McCovey Cove Returns]

There a couple of options, as long as your VCR has some component output jacks on it, it's simple. You'll need to buy at least one piece of hardware for the PC and some cables to connect the VCR to the PC. I used a Dazzle unit by Pinnacle Systems to do the trick. Very simple. It connected to a USB port on the PC and had input and output connectors. The software is pretty simple and I was able to dump video from my VCR and DVR on to the PC for editing with relative ease. Of course, this is the simple and fairly inexpensive way to do it.

[Bureau Chief]

If you have a digital camcorder, use IT as a VCR and record your VHS over to it, that makes it digital, then send it to the computer via firewire. I just did this to archive a truck load of old footage that is on SVHS tapes.

[On Air]

Originally posted by News Vampire:
There a couple of options, as long as your VCR has some component output jacks on it, it's simple. You'll need to buy at least one piece of hardware for the PC and some cables to connect the VCR to the PC. I used a Dazzle unit by Pinnacle Systems to do the trick. Very simple. It connected to a USB port on the PC and had input and output connectors. The software is pretty simple and I was able to dump video from my VCR and DVR on to the PC for editing with relative ease. Of course, this is the simple and fairly inexpensive way to do it.How much does this cost?

I don't have a digital camcorder.

[McCovey Cove Returns]

If memory serves me correct I think it was somewhere between 150-200 bucks for the whole shot. You get the Dazzle and the software.

[Stack It]

Some video cards these days are loaded up enough that they come with adapters already. I've got an All-In-Wonder from ATI, and it does practically everything. I hooked up a coaxial cable and I can watch TV on my computer. It also has some plugs on the back that let me connect just about anything I can imagine to my PC. Camcorder, HDTV, whatever I want, I can connect to. I can input with just about anything too. Take a look, you may have everything you need already without even knowing it.

There are some packages out there that will let you edit with ease. They'll include either Pinnacle's software or a scaled down version of Adobe Premier. You will need some sort of unit that will link your PC to the VCR.

[sophie]

Stack it is right, there are video cards to do what you want. But, being a Mac girl, I don't know much about PCs at all.

News Vampire mentioned Pinnacle: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/items/400877.jpg
For the price ($49.95) it sounds like an amazing deal. The tool I need for my Mac is http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/smallimages/312315.jpg
over $200, and that tool sounds like it's included in the $49.95. This analog to digital converter does the job that Bureau Chief uses a camcorder for.

Vampire, can you tell me/us more about this? what's the extra piece of hardware that one needs to buy?

By the way, here's a great site for a huge selection of audio/video/photo goodies.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com

[ November 12, 2006, 04:25 AM: Message edited by: sophie ]

[Michigan J. Frog]

I use the Dazzle Hollywood--don't think it's made anymore but I got mine on eBay for about $40. Take a look.

[Union Label]

If it were me, I would opt for one of the Canopus (http://www.videoguys.com/ADVC.html) converters. They all play well with Macs and Windoze. I'd recommend paying the extra $$ for the ADVC 300 vs the ADVC 100 in order to get the advantages of time base correction.

Once your video is on the computer, you can use any of the many video editing programs available including Adobe Premiere, Avid Express, Sony Vegas on Windows or i-Movie and Final Cut on Macs.

As a side note, i would burn your final edited video onto DVD rather than dubbing it back to VHS. VHS is a horrible format to begin with and multi generation VHS is terrible.

[ November 12, 2006, 06:19 AM: Message edited by: Union Label ]

[On Air]

Originally posted by Union Label:
If it were me, I would opt for one of the Canopus (http://www.videoguys.com/ADVC.html) converters. They all play well with Macs and Windoze. I'd recommend paying the extra $$ for the ADVC 300 vs the ADVC 100 in order to get the advantages of time base correction.

Once your video is on the computer, you can use any of the many video editing programs available including Adobe Premiere, Avid Express, Sony Vegas on Windows or i-Movie and Final Cut on Macs.

As a side note, i would burn your final edited video onto DVD rather than dubbing it back to VHS. VHS is a horrible format to begin with and multi generation VHS is terrible.I have Windows Movie Maker already, so I'm set with basic editing -- and basic editing is all I need, really.

But I'm going to need to dub back to VHS if I'm sending tapes. I'll be able to make DVD masters -- I have all that hardward and software. I just need to make those VHS copies for news directors. I'm just trying to give them want they want.

[Stack It]

If that's the case, make sure you get some high quality cables, because while it may seem absurd to pay 50 or even 100 dollars for a simple A/V cable they will make a difference in audio and video quality.

[On Air]

Apologies in advance for being so ignorant: it appears that Windows Movie Maker has some kind of video capture features -- under Help topics is simply talks about the capture device needing to be there -- and I'm assuming the Dazzle is a capture device. Can anyone verify that I may not need extra software?

Again, apologies for the dumb question.

[newscache]

Yes, Dazzle (http://www.pinnaclesys.com/PublicSite/us/Products/Consumer+Products/Dazzle/Family.htm) is a capture device. And you should be able to use either Windows Movie Maker or the editing software that comes with Dazzle (Pinacle Studio QuickStart) to do the editing.

Then the problem is to get the video back to VHS. Looking at the Dazzle description, I don't see that capability. So you would have to create a DVD and record that onto VHS.

It might be simpler to use the editing software that comes with the Dazzle device, since it will probably set itself up automatically, and you won't have to experiment with setting up Windows Movie Maker to use the Dazzle device.

[ November 12, 2006, 08:01 AM: Message edited by: newscache ]

[east coast producer]

If you go with a Pinnacle device, they all include the software. I have a higher-end Pinnacle device for ingesting video, and the software that comes with Windows won't recognize it. I have to use the software that's included with the Pinnacle device (again, if you buy a Pinnacle device, they ALL have this software. It's not something extra you need to buy).

BUT you cannot buy the cheapest Pinnacle at your Best Buy. The cheap ones rely on your computer to compress to MPEG -- that puts a huge burden on your computer and the cheap ones don't capture in FULL resolution. Obviously, that's no good.

If you decide to buy the gear, you would need -- as a minimum -- the Pinnacle DVC-150 which retails $150-175. It's sold by most electronics stores, including Best Buy. Again, they'll also be selling cheaper versions, but the DVC-150 has the internal computing whatnot to compress on the fly, relieving you computer of that burden -- AND, even more importantly, captures at full resolution.

You'll need at least a USB 1.1 - preferably 2.0 -- input on your computer, which I'm sure it does unless you bought in 1995. Pinnacle doesn't offer devices that use Firewire.

Since you said you have a DVD burner, you'll definitely want to burn your finished product to DVD. Then use your DVD player -- connected to your VCR with RCA cables -- to make your dubs. I don't recollect if the included Pinnacle software burns a DVD-playable disc -- I use different software for that.

Moviemaker will probably be ok to edit -- and it's really super easy software to use. The only problem with Moviemaker is you can't edit frame-by-frame, so you might not be able to get the precise cut you want. The Pinnacle editing software does.

I'm about to write you a PM. Check it.

[east coast producer]

Originally posted by sophie:
Stack it is right, there are video cards to do what you want. But, being a Mac girl, I don't know much about PCs at all.

News Vampire mentioned Pinnacle: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/items/400877.jpg
For the price ($49.95) it sounds like an amazing deal. The tool I need for my Mac is http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/smallimages/312315.jpg
over $200, and that tool sounds like it's included in the $49.95. This analog to digital converter does the job that Bureau Chief uses a camcorder for.

Vampire, can you tell me/us more about this? what's the extra piece of hardware that one needs to buy?

By the way, here's a great site for a huge selection of audio/video/photo goodies.
http://www.bhphotovideo.comThat device won't work for his needs. It'd rely on his computer for the compression while it ingests and it does not capture at TV-quality resolution. That device is intended for web-size video.. like 320x240 that would look AWFUL if outputted to a tv.

[McCovey Cove Returns]

Originally posted by sophie:
Stack it is right, there are video cards to do what you want. But, being a Mac girl, I don't know much about PCs at all.

News Vampire mentioned Pinnacle: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/items/400877.jpg
For the price ($49.95) it sounds like an amazing deal. The tool I need for my Mac is http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/smallimages/312315.jpg
over $200, and that tool sounds like it's included in the $49.95. This analog to digital converter does the job that Bureau Chief uses a camcorder for.

Vampire, can you tell me/us more about this? what's the extra piece of hardware that one needs to buy?

By the way, here's a great site for a huge selection of audio/video/photo goodies.
http://www.bhphotovideo.comsophie, that's not the version I have. I have the same DVC-150 model that ECP has. That $49 model will leave you with very unsatisfactory results plus it only has the one input. The DVC-150 has input and outputs plus Pinnacle's Studio Software package. I love it.

[east coast producer]

Clarification - I don't have the DVC-150. I have the prosumer Pinnacle MovieBox (that Pinnacle doesn't sell for some reason anymore).

Just sayin' that DVC-150 is the bare minimum if you want to buy your own. Any model less than -150 will not do the job you want it to do correctly.

[sophie]

Originally posted by east coast of hell producer:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by sophie:
Stack it is right, there are video cards to do what you want. But, being a Mac girl, I don't know much about PCs at all.

News Vampire mentioned Pinnacle: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/items/400877.jpg
For the price ($49.95) it sounds like an amazing deal. The tool I need for my Mac is http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/smallimages/312315.jpg
over $200, and that tool sounds like it's included in the $49.95. This analog to digital converter does the job that Bureau Chief uses a camcorder for.

Vampire, can you tell me/us more about this? what's the extra piece of hardware that one needs to buy?

By the way, here's a great site for a huge selection of audio/video/photo goodies.
http://www.bhphotovideo.comThat device won't work for his needs. It'd rely on his computer for the compression while it ingests and it does not capture at TV-quality resolution. That device is intended for web-size video.. like 320x240 that would look AWFUL if outputted to a tv.</font>[/QUOTE]The picture I posted isn't the one I actually have at work, it's just the first picture I came across. Maybe I have something different. I do have a canopus, but I also have a couple of others, whose name brand escapes me.

Some clients come to me to make DVDs from their VHS tapes. I don't do VHS to DVD work alot, but when I do, it's not for web-sized video. So I guess I don't really know what you're talking about. None of my work looks "awful" viewed on a TV.

[east coast producer]

I was referring to the Pinnacle 85, not that Mac device. Sorry. smile.gif

[ November 12, 2006, 08:38 AM: Message edited by: east coast of hell producer ]

[sophie]

Originally posted by east coast of hell producer:
I was referring to the Pinnacle 85, not that Mac device. Sorry. smile.gif No Problem smile.gif

For the record, I know NOTHING about Pinnacle. I went straight from shooting on BetaSX and deck to deck editing, to shooting Mini-DV and editing on FinalCutPro with a Mac.

I don't know much at all about PCs.

[Bureau Chief]

If you are gonna buy a dazzle, pm me. I got one that I havnt used in a couple of years I will sell you cheap.

[newscache]

Originally posted by east coast of hell producer:
BUT you cannot buy the cheapest Pinnacle at your Best Buy. The cheap ones rely on your computer to compress to MPEG -- that puts a huge burden on your computer and the cheap ones don't capture in FULL resolution. Obviously, that's no good.
It used to be true that Pinnacle devices would capture smaller-then-optimum frames, but it looks like the current items capture at standard TV resolution, 720 x 480.

So buying a used capture card might give worse results thant getting a current $49.95 (http://www.pinnaclesys.com/PublicSite/us/Products/Consumer+Products/Dazzle/Family.htm) model.

It does require a current computer model:

Minimum System Requirements

Windows® XP (SP2 or higher)
Intel® Pentium® or AMD® Athlon® 2.0 GHz or higher (2.4 GHz or higher recommended)
512 MB RAM (1 GB recommended)
DirectX® 9 or higher compatible graphics card with 64 MB (ATI® Radeon® or NVIDIA® GeForce™ 3 or higher, with 128 MB recommended)
DirectX 9 or higher compatible sound card (Creative® Audigy® or M-Audio® recommended)
1 GB of disk space to install software and 3 GB to install bonus content
1 USB 2.0 (Hi-Speed) port
DVD burner for creating DVDs

Hardware Specifications

Video inputs: Composite video (RCA), S-Video (mini-DIN)
Audio inputs: Stereo audio (RCA x2)
PC connection: Hi-Speed USB 2.0

Software Specifications

Capture from any video source with composite (RCA) or S-Video output

Capture Formats:

MPEG-2

[westbound on 70]

If your computer has a FireWire port, I would suggest buying an early-model MiniDV camcorder.

You can use a digital camcorder as a 'pass through' device, feeding the analog signal from the VCR through the camera, which will convert it to a digital signal for capture into the computer.

The process then works in reverse, you can then output the video from the computer via FireWire to the camera, which you can 'pass through' via the camera's analog outputs to the VCR. All you'd need to do is switch the RCA cables to the VCR's inputs.

The secondary benefit to this is that you will also have digital video camera to use when it's not doing editing duty.

[ November 12, 2006, 11:13 AM: Message edited by: westbound on 70 ]

[east coast producer]

Originally posted by newscache:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by east coast of hell producer:
BUT you cannot buy the cheapest Pinnacle at your Best Buy. The cheap ones rely on your computer to compress to MPEG -- that puts a huge burden on your computer and the cheap ones don't capture in FULL resolution. Obviously, that's no good.
It used to be true that Pinnacle devices would capture smaller-then-optimum frames, but it looks like the current items capture at standard TV resolution, 720 x 480.

So buying a used capture card might give worse results thant getting a current $49.95 (http://www.pinnaclesys.com/PublicSite/us/Products/Consumer+Products/Dazzle/Family.htm) model.

It does require a current computer model:

Minimum System Requirements

Windows® XP (SP2 or higher)
Intel® Pentium® or AMD® Athlon® 2.0 GHz or higher (2.4 GHz or higher recommended)
512 MB RAM (1 GB recommended)
DirectX® 9 or higher compatible graphics card with 64 MB (ATI® Radeon® or NVIDIA® GeForce™ 3 or higher, with 128 MB recommended)
DirectX 9 or higher compatible sound card (Creative® Audigy® or M-Audio® recommended)
1 GB of disk space to install software and 3 GB to install bonus content
1 USB 2.0 (Hi-Speed) port
DVD burner for creating DVDs

Hardware Specifications

Video inputs: Composite video (RCA), S-Video (mini-DIN)
Audio inputs: Stereo audio (RCA x2)
PC connection: Hi-Speed USB 2.0

Software Specifications

Capture from any video source with composite (RCA) or S-Video output

Capture Formats:

MPEG-2</font>[/QUOTE]Ya, looks like you're right. I haven't looked at their new product specs in a while. Still, that cheapo model doesn't have the hardware encoding, so, like you said, you need a powerhouse computer to do the job for it.

[Roy Hobbs]

Bill Murray of Stripes went to the same high school as me and Bill Plante of CBS News...

http://www.whatdvd.net/WhatDVD-Graphics/sub/571.gif

Murray uses The Old Razzle Dazzle!

BOOM chuggle LUGGA!

[Michigan J. Frog]

To clarify, the Dazzle Hollywood DV-Bridge takes video and stereo audio in on RCA jacks or s-video in or Firewire in; outputs 720 x 480 video thru video/audio RCA's, s-video, or Firewire.

But, again, for some reason Pinnacle stopped making it, so you'll have to get it used from eBay as I did.

[TAFKA wacowx]

Originally posted by westbound on 70:
If your computer has a FireWire port, I would suggest buying an early-model MiniDV camcorder.

You can use a digital camcorder as a 'pass through' device, feeding the analog signal from the VCR through the camera, which will convert it to a digital signal for capture into the computer.

The process then works in reverse, you can then output the video from the computer via FireWire to the camera, which you can 'pass through' via the camera's analog outputs to the VCR. All you'd need to do is switch the RCA cables to the VCR's inputs.

The secondary benefit to this is that you will also have digital video camera to use when it's not doing editing duty.PLUS...it works as a great, easy way to transport your video from work machines back home in a lossless format. I hook my MiniDV camcorder up to the DVCPro decks and the DVD players at work and bring my video back home with me. Look for one (and many of the cheapest are only between $150 and $300) that can serve as an analog to digital converter. All of the current Canon models do. I know some here have had problems with Canon, but I had no problems with my ZR10 until recently and it gave me 4-5 years of problem-free service with HEAVY use. The newest models have built in hard drives so you don't even need to worry about tapes...although they will cost at least $100 more (an 80 GB model costs around $700, but the 20 GB models are only around 300-400.)

[On Air]

Originally posted by WacoWX:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by westbound on 70:
If your computer has a FireWire port, I would suggest buying an early-model MiniDV camcorder.

You can use a digital camcorder as a 'pass through' device, feeding the analog signal from the VCR through the camera, which will convert it to a digital signal for capture into the computer.

The process then works in reverse, you can then output the video from the computer via FireWire to the camera, which you can 'pass through' via the camera's analog outputs to the VCR. All you'd need to do is switch the RCA cables to the VCR's inputs.

The secondary benefit to this is that you will also have digital video camera to use when it's not doing editing duty.PLUS...it works as a great, easy way to transport your video from work machines back home in a lossless format. I hook my MiniDV camcorder up to the DVCPro decks and the DVD players at work and bring my video back home with me. Look for one (and many of the cheapest are only between $150 and $300) that can serve as an analog to digital converter. All of the current Canon models do. I know some here have had problems with Canon, but I had no problems with my ZR10 until recently and it gave me 4-5 years of problem-free service with HEAVY use. The newest models have built in hard drives so you don't even need to worry about tapes...although they will cost at least $100 more (an 80 GB model costs around $700, but the 20 GB models are only around 300-400.)</font>[/QUOTE]That would be great to be able to do it off of DVC... I hadn't thought of a camcorder in that capacity. Then again, we aircheck in DVD, so maybe I should look at that way to go too.

Either way, though I'm going to have to get it to work with the editing software, and right now, so some reason, the Movie Maker software won't import from the DVD drive, even when I installed some DVD ripping software in.

Then I couldn't figure out how to just dump one segment or one show onto my computer and I end up dumping three or four newscasts and that's a lot of memory.

And, quite honestly, this stuff is confusing, because I'm soooo new to it and trying to figure it out on my own (well, okay, with help from you guys!).

[TAFKA wacowx]

Very few programs will rip from DVDs...that's why it's best to use the camcorder as a video transfer device...just play to it.

DVDs as a general format are copy protected to a certain extent. Because so much content on DVD is copyrighted material, the 'industry' makes it almost impossible to rip any video from a DVD and use it in movie editing programs. Even DVDs you may have personally recorded. It's opposite of what we have become used to with CDs...you can simply rip a CD and its content to your hard drive, but you just can't do it with DVDs. I wish we could do it more easily, but for now if you want to edit material that is on DVD you will need to buy a program that will 'rip' DVD video and translate it into AVIs or MPGs or whatever format your movie editor requires. I have noticed that doing things this way requires you to load the ENTIRE 'chapter' rather than just being able to load in a few minutes of video....eats up a lot of time transferring and ripping.

For personal use, it's just much easier to record it onto a MiniDV camcorder and import it from there.

[Clubbeat]

I use both mac with FinalCutPro and a pc with Adobe Preimere Pro for editing. There are others that are o-k like Vegas but the two I mentioned allow you to do some really cool things.

If you're just using this to archive old footage, then many of the suggestions in this thread will help. If you're looking to something that will be used for broadcast or professional playback, then I'd go with the higher end editing software, a good pc with dual core processing (or a g5 Mac or better).

[ November 13, 2006, 01:31 PM: Message edited by: Clubbeat ]